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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Art 'n artists
    #2174824 - 12/13/03 03:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ever notice how the general population accepts that musicians are really deep thinkers who are spreading an important message to the populace? Musicians often make the mistake of believing the same of themselves.

Film makers choose how we see their art, and film seems to tell us how to see the world. If people want to know if they are normal or not, they compare themselves to characters in film and TV.

Painters.. I don't know.. paint is dead. It's not one of the universally enjoyed art forms these days.

Writers.. They are able to flesh out gigantic ideas and then people absorb them and become intellectually empowered, regardless of the validity of their ideas. Often people's understanding of how the universe works comes from reading books. It's funny when someone's life changes after they read a certain book and then they're like "you should read this!" The ideas you get about the world from books are adopted, whereas the world sense you get from film and TV is less consciously accepted. You might not even realize those forms are changing the way you see things.


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OfflinePositronius
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Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2174827 - 12/13/03 03:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

People learn from books and films, just as they learn from personal experience, I dont know about your usage of the word "adopted" I guess thats true, in the same sense that a mechanic "adopts" the ideas from his 1986 VW Jetta manual in order to better fix his car.

you dig? good, now go spread the word to all your pithy disciples.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Positronius]
    #2174843 - 12/13/03 04:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

There are certain books.. like Ishmael by danielle quinn that make people come out saying the exact stuff he says about the world without any of their own input. It's like people are thinking pretty much the same thing and then a guy comes out and is able to put the ideas together in a big coherent theory and now everybody talks in terms of "dominator cultures"

or how about all the people who don't read history and then suddenly have a lot to say about how the pyramids are 15 000 years old and Atlantis is antarctica.

And then the Mckenna people who argue for shrooms causing humans to become human or that spores flew through space. This is what I mean by adopting ideas. When you listen to music you don't adopt ideas because you interpret whatever you hear to be supplementing whatever you already think.

Films seem to just "slip" information in there.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2174853 - 12/13/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

All art is just a form of personal expression of the artist. Is it really a bad thing to be able to relate to how the artist was feeling? Anyone with a mind of their own doesn't put musicians/artists/etc up on a white alabaster pedestal just because they can relate to their music/art/etc.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: adrug]
    #2174913 - 12/13/03 04:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

relating is fine. What I'm talking about is that we think of musicians as having a lot to say, when they aren't really any different than the rest of us. Being on a stage singing about yourself is a pretty strange thing. I don't think musicians used to be in the same position.


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Offlineergot
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2174921 - 12/13/03 04:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Art has always been a reflection of the current society....


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: ergot]
    #2174925 - 12/13/03 04:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

wow


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Offlineergot
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2174946 - 12/13/03 04:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well, what I meant is that.... society creates art, art doesn't create society... as you seem to be stating.


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: ergot]
    #2174954 - 12/13/03 04:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm.. I don't mean to say that.

I'm talking about how we see artists and the roles art plays these days.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2174966 - 12/13/03 04:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
relating is fine. What I'm talking about is that we think of musicians as having a lot to say, when they aren't really any different than the rest of us. Being on a stage singing about yourself is a pretty strange thing. I don't think musicians used to be in the same position.




"the rest of us"? I'm sorry, but musicians are clearly different than "the rest of us", even though that is quite the broad generalization. Only certain kinds of people dedicate their lives to making music and sharing it with other people.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineergot
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2174967 - 12/13/03 04:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, so?


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: ergot]
    #2174982 - 12/13/03 04:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

haha fireworks! What's up? Hmm.. yes, creating music and sharing it is a different habit from people who don't do that, but does a musician have more insightful ideas about life than the rest of us? No! And that's what I was talking about. They don't, yet.. "we" seem to think they do, which is kinda funny.


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OfflinePositronius
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Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2174992 - 12/13/03 05:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

fireworks: "the rest of us"? I'm sorry, but musicians are clearly different than "the rest of us", even though that is quite the broad generalization. Only certain kinds of people dedicate their lives to making music and sharing it with other people.


ahhh, the elitist musician speaks. Musicians just found their profitable niche just like "the rest of us" a musician is no different than a farmer? or a doctor? please enlighten me.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2175009 - 12/13/03 05:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
haha fireworks! What's up? Hmm.. yes, creating music and sharing it is a different habit from people who don't do that, but does a musician have more insightful ideas about life than the rest of us? No! And that's what I was talking about. They don't, yet.. "we" seem to think they do, which is kinda funny.




Dude, all I am saying is don't think through generalizations. First off, does anyone have more insightful ideas about life than anyone else? If yes, than I believe it is definitely possible that some musicians do have more insightful ideas.

I mean, the state of mind of someone who lives to create and share music is going to be quite different than the state of mind of someone who works in a factory and plays football on weekends, for the most part. Exceptions are allowed. :grin:

Different people look at things different ways, and someone looking at that direction is going to see some things that are different than the person who is looking at that direction.

I think it is pointless to say "oh, he's an artist, he has something important to say", and that is what you are saying. I mean, taking a stance like that completely ignores the ideas themselves that are being expressed.

Think of the people who talk endlessly, just to make sure people are noticing that they are there. They are expressing themselves, but the content isn't all that great. Others that tend to think about things more and sort of tune into the situations they are in and all, they can tend to have something more insightful and meaningful to say.

Hell, myself, I am into music because I find it very interesting and I would love to create and share with others. It is fun and challenging. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Art 'n artists [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2175021 - 12/13/03 05:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

FireWorks - First off, does anyone have more insightful ideas about life than anyone else? If yes, than I believe it is definitely possible that some musicians do have more insightful ideas.


Blah. Wrong. What insightful ideas does Ted Nugent have to share? or how about 50 cent? David Lee Roth? Ike Turner?

Being a musician does not enable you to be any more insightful than being a janitor.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Positronius]
    #2175034 - 12/13/03 05:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

How about TOOL? or Radiohead? Maybe even Rush? Shall I keep naming bands/artists?

Painting is dead? Does the name Alex Grey ring a bell?

Nah. I think you're right. These people are just like the rest of us.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2175061 - 12/13/03 05:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I am a musician and writer because I enjoy it, for it is my passion. The art of creating and channelling deep from the subconscious. Who cares about deep thinking or not, so long as the final product can be enjoyed by the creator as well as the listener. That is what it all comes down to, and it's subjective at best.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Positronius]
    #2175062 - 12/13/03 05:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
Blah. Wrong. What insightful ideas does Ted Nugent have to share? or how about 50 cent? David Lee Roth? Ike Turner?

Being a musician does not enable you to be any more insightful than being a janitor.




"i think it is definitely possible that SOME musicians do have more insightful ideas".

Hhhhm......

That word their, "some", seems to have quite the altering effect on my sentence.

Now, what is it that Swami says.... oh ja! "Reading comprehension skills error". Yep, that's the one.

Anyways, NO where did I even imply that being a musician enables one to be more insightful than anyone else. Not one bit. Reread. Takk.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2175074 - 12/13/03 05:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
haha fireworks! What's up? Hmm.. yes, creating music and sharing it is a different habit from people who don't do that, but does a musician have more insightful ideas about life than the rest of us? No! And that's what I was talking about. They don't, yet.. "we" seem to think they do, which is kinda funny.


I see exactly what you're saying and you make a good point, but in my experience the answer to your question is often yes. There are a higher proportion of musicians that think deeply then there are in the non-art population. I think that people who ask certain kinds of questions are more drawn to outlets they may use to express such ideas. This isn't to say that you have to take part in some kind of art form to be an intelligent person of depth, or to have good ideas, just that people who are like that tend to be drawn to forms of expression that partner well with thier mindset.

Of course it works the other way too, there are moron musicians all over the place. But my point still stands.


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OfflinePositronius
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Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: Art 'n artists [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2175079 - 12/13/03 05:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

fireworks- yes SOME just as SOME janitors offer insight, as do SOME gynecologists.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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