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OfflineEightball
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Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11
    #995383 - 10/26/02 09:23 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,819931,00.html

Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11

America's most controversial novelist calls for an investigation into whether the Bush administration deliberately allowed the terrorist attacks to happen

Sunder Katwala
Sunday October 27, 2002

America's most controversial writer Gore Vidal has launched the most scathing attack to date on George W Bush's Presidency, calling for an investigation into the events of 9/11 to discover whether the Bush administration deliberately chose not to act on warnings of Al-Qaeda's plans.
Vidal's highly controversial 7000 word polemic titled 'The Enemy Within' - published in the print edition of The Observer today - argues that what he calls a 'Bush junta' used the terrorist attacks as a pretext to enact a pre-existing agenda to invade Afghanistan and crack down on civil liberties at home.

Vidal writes: 'We still don't know by whom we were struck that infamous Tuesday, or for what true purpose. But it is fairly plain to many civil libertarians that 9/11 put paid not only to much of our fragile Bill of Rights but also to our once-envied system of government which had taken a mortal blow the previous year when the Supreme Court did a little dance in 5/4 time and replaced a popularly elected President with the oil and gas Bush-Cheney junta.'

Vidal argues that the real motive for the Afghanistan war was to control the gateway to Eurasia and Central Asia's energy riches. He quotes extensively from a 1997 analysis of the region by Zgibniew Brzezinski, formerly national security adviser to President Carter, in support of this theory. But, Vidal argues, US administrations, both Democrat and Republican, were aware that the American public would resist any war in Afghanistan without a truly massive and widely perceived external threat.

'Osama was chosen on aesthetic grounds to be the frightening logo for our long-contemplated invasion and conquest of Afghanistan ... [because] the administration is convinced that Americans are so simple-minded that they can deal with no scenario more complex than the venerable, lone, crazed killer (this time with zombie helpers) who does evil just for the fun of it 'cause he hates us because we're rich 'n free 'n he's not.' Vidal also attacks the American media's failure to discuss 11 September and its consequences: 'Apparently, "conspiracy stuff" is now shorthand for unspeakable truth.'

'It is an article of faith that there are no conspiracies in American life. Yet, a year or so ago, who would have thought that most of corporate America had been conspiring with accountants to cook their books since - well, at least the bright dawn of the era of Reagan and deregulation.'

At the heart of the essay are questions about the events of 9/11 itself and the two hours after the planes were hijacked. Vidal writes that 'astonished military experts cannot fathom why the government's "automatic standard order of procedure in the event of a hijacking" was not followed'.

These procedures, says Vidal, determine that fighter planes should automatically be sent aloft as soon as a plane has deviated from its flight plan. Presidential authority is not required until a plane is to be shot down. But, on 11 September, no decision to start launching planes was taken until 9.40am, eighty minutes after air controllers first knew that Flight 11 had been hijacked and fifty minutes after the first plane had struck the North Tower.

'By law, the fighters should have been up at around 8.15. If they had, all the hijacked planes might have been diverted and shot down.'

Vidal asks why Bush, as Commander-in-Chief, stayed in a Florida classroom as news of the attacks broke: 'The behaviour of President Bush on 11 September certainly gives rise to not unnatural suspicions.' He also attacks the 'nonchalance' of General Richard B Myers, acting Joint Chief of Staff, in failing to respond until the planes had crashed into the twin towers.

Asking whether these failures to act expeditiously were down to conspiracy, coincidence or error, Vidal notes that incompetence would usually lead to reprimands for those responsible, writing that 'It is interesting how often in our history, when disaster strikes, incompetence is considered a better alibi than .... Well, yes, there are worse things.'

Vidal draws comparisons with another 'day of infamy' in American history, writing that 'The truth about Pearl Harbour is obscured to this day. But it has been much studied. 11 September, it is plain, is never going to be investigated if Bush has anything to say about it.' He quotes CNN reports that Bush personally asked Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle to limit Congressional investigation of the day itself, ostensibly on grounds of not diverting resources from the anti-terror campaign.

Vidal calls bin Laden an 'Islamic zealot' and 'evil doer' but argues that 'war' cannot be waged on the abstraction of 'terrorism'. He says that 'Every nation knows how - if it has the means and will - to protect itself from thugs of the sort that brought us 9/11 ... You put a price on their heads and hunt them down. In recent years, Italy has been doing that with the Sicilian Mafia; and no-one has suggested bombing Palermo.'

Vidal also highlights the role of American and Pakistani intelligence in creating the fundamentalist terrorist threat: 'Apparently, Pakistan did do it - or some of it' but with American support. "From 1979, the largest covert operation in the history of the CIA was launched in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan ... the CIA covertly trained and sponsored these warriors.'

Vidal also quotes the highly respected defence journal Jane's Defence Weekly on how this support for Islamic fundamentalism continued after the emergence of bin Laden: 'In 1988, with US knowledge, bin Laden created Al-Qaeda (The Base); a conglomerate of quasi-independent Islamic terrorist cells spread across 26 or so countries. Washington turned a blind eye to Al-Qaeda.'

Vidal, 77, and internationally renowned for his award-winning novels and plays, has long been a ferocious, and often isolated, critic of the Bush administration at home and abroad. He now lives in Italy. In Vidal's most recent book, The Last Empire, he argued that 'Americans have no idea of the extent of their government's mischief ... the number of military strikes we have made unprovoked, against other countries, since 1947 is more than 250.'


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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Anonymous

Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Eightball]
    #995386 - 10/26/02 09:25 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, some idiots will say anything.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Eightball]
    #995848 - 10/27/02 01:24 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

who's the idiot here?


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Eightball]
    #996039 - 10/27/02 02:06 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

It wouldn't surprise me. 9/11 was the most heavily pre-publicised terrorist attack in history. If the Bush government didn't know what was going to happen then they want removing from their jobs as soon as possible for sheer incompetence.


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Offlinepimpadelic
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: ]
    #996675 - 10/27/02 01:31 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, some idiots will say anything

And most Americans will believe everything thier government tells them :frown: 


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: ]
    #996711 - 10/27/02 01:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

It would be a little ignorant to call Gore Vidal an idiot.

I don't think Bush allowed the attacks to happen, but it would not be a stretch to say that he used them to further his own agenda.


--------------------
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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Xlea321]
    #996724 - 10/27/02 01:50 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"It wouldn't surprise me. 9/11 was the most heavily pre-publicised terrorist attack in history. If the Bush government didn't know what was going to happen then they want removing from their jobs as soon as possible for sheer incompetence. "

While there is "evidence" that the government might have known about the attacks in advance, it is all circumstantial. The human mind is incredible, when you begin with a conclusion, and then work backwards to find evidence to support it, you will inevitably find patterns that match your hypothesis. Look at Christian science, for example. There is tons of "evidence" that shows all kinds of events in the bible occurred.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Phluck]
    #997058 - 10/27/02 04:26 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

While there is "evidence" that the government might have known about the attacks in advance, it is all circumstantial.

Kinda like the evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Xlea321]
    #997395 - 10/27/02 07:11 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Exactly.
Except there is slightly more reason to believe that Iraq is trying to develop weapons of mass destruction, but if that's any reason to attack someone, the US should bomb themselves.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineFreezingPenguin
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Eightball]
    #997503 - 10/27/02 07:52 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Finally, some people with power are comming foward

you know, people calling bush hitler, and now this. I think bush is perhaps the MOST hated world learder right now

THANK god

i was going crazy, when i thought i was the only one who knew this guys was trouble.


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Anonymous

Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: pimpadelic]
    #997661 - 10/27/02 08:55 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, most Americans will believe what their government tells them and so will the people of other nations as well. Americans do not have the monopoly on being 'sheeple' whatever you might have heard. It's human nature.


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Anonymous

Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Phluck]
    #997681 - 10/27/02 09:02 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"It would be a little ignorant to call Gore Vidal an idiot."

And why is that?  Whenever I hear some person babble some idiotic 'conspiracy theory' I calls 'em like I sees 'em.  Evidently Vidal has his tin foil hat on too tight.

And I suppose he has proof?  Beyond a preponderance of doubt?  Not hardly and that's way he's an idiot.  He intention has nothing to do with whether or not President Bush is culpable.  He is merely trying desperately to swing the election.  A cute gambit, but very transparent. :smirk:

And for the record I know a little more about this sort of thing than most.  I do politics for a living. 


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: ]
    #998799 - 10/28/02 01:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

babble some idiotic 'conspiracy theory'

As Vidal says "In america today conspiracy theory is code for unspeakable truth"

And for the record I know a little more about this sort of thing than most. I do politics for a living.

That's a little presumptious. And certainly you do not display any of this knowledge in your posts. Either way I think Gore Vidal knows far more about politics than anyone on the board.


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OfflineMr_zebra
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Xlea321]
    #998894 - 10/28/02 02:19 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)



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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: ]
    #998907 - 10/28/02 02:27 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I don't doubt the possibility Bush & his crew COULD of allowed this to happen. It certainly helped Dubya and the gang with their agenda. Before the attack of 911, Dubya was kind of lacking authority because of the facts of his election. (More people voted for Gore, the sureme courts 5-4 decision to not recount the Florida votes, etc. didn't make for a strong democratic legitimacy)

Now, he's in the driver's seat, isn't he?

M. Mushrooms, do you think Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK? Does the CIA/military industrial complex conspiracy theory not make sense to you?

I don't know what to believe. But I think it very possible the elite of any nation could be motivated to do these sorts of things.


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Eightball]
    #998926 - 10/28/02 02:44 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I think that Bush did not (hopefully) trigger these attacks on his own nation. Of course, anything is possible, and Im sure he would go to great lengths to get into the oil riches in the middle east.

However, I feel if he did not trigger these attacks on a concious level, I feel that he triggered this attacks from being in office. The people who were behind 9/11 obviously had a problem with the american society, and I feel that is mainly in part of having Bush in office. I mean...switch things around a little. Its basically having Saddam's son taking over who is just as mean and just as strict in his fathers business. Obviously the difference is that Bush does not blow up his own people on purpose (but, who really knows?)

We are all subjects to govermental and social brainwashing...Well, we are ALL brainwashed right now to be socially acceptable, and the thought of not being in first hand in anything is really debilitating. Never trust anyone. We assume things that are going on are true from the media and news...never being there in first person to witness it.

Bush seems pretty evil to me. I think he has something up his sleeve. Being Bush Sr. son, I feel pretty uneasy about him.


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Anonymous

Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: carbonhoots]
    #999696 - 10/28/02 12:36 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

It is important to understand the conspiratorial mind before trying to establish whether any conspiracy is true or not. The conspiratorial mind always tries to establish some theory as being the best answer to a set of circumstances in an effort to see itself as some sort of medium, in a precognitive sense, of events to come or past events that have already happened. It is merely the function of the ego combined with a disassociative predilection for non-causal correlations.

In other words, conspiratorialists like to think they are 'in the know' because it makes them feel important. Sometimes there are true conspiracies and at other times people splice together facts in a haphazard, Persian bazaar manner in an effort to give credence to a worldview they favor whether it aligns with reality or not.

History is written by those that have hanged heros. So it is likely that we never have enough facts to truly know with the kind of certainty that I am comfortable with to determine the truth of any number of events, their cause, or their conclusions.

Cheers,


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: ]
    #999732 - 10/28/02 12:50 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

because trust will kill, the freethinker is always paranoid, always in mode of suspect, always forming an infinite amount of possible scenarios to justify something that they are pretty sure isnt what it seems

never sure until empirical evidence is observed first hand, and over lengthy periods of time


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: Lallafa]
    #999994 - 10/28/02 02:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

good way to put it lall


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11 [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1000133 - 10/28/02 03:36 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

CIA/military industrial complex conspiracy theory

Good point. But is there such a thing as a "conspiracy theory"?. It's usually just a term far right-wingers use to undermine arguments that don't correspond to their closed minded belief system.

It's best to take each issue in it's own terms and consider it with an open mind. This is how we make intellectual progress. To dismiss everything that doesn't coincide with a far right-wing belief system as "conspiracy theory" is simple intellectual cowardice.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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