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Does this look familiar?
    #965621 -

Those that have been around in the political forum for the last year know that I've been saying from the start that "it's all about the oil" in regards to Afghanistan and now Iraq. Mainstream news is starting to clue in as well (or at least acknowledge the possibility) Read on...

In Iraq War, to the Victor Goes the Oil
The word from the CIA: it's the oil, stupid
Russia fears US oil companies will take over world's second-biggest reserves
Oil firms wait as Iraq crisis unfolds
US oil at the heart of Iraq crisis
The West's battle for oil
U.S. Drillers Eye Huge Petroleum Pool
Petroleum fuels debate on Iraq war
US postwar plan: Run Iraqi oil fields

I hate to be the one to say "I told you so" but...


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

Edited by Rono (10/16/02 12:58 PM)

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Rono]
    #965633 -

In reply to:
In contrast, the hope: A democratic Iraq would be an oil-rich ally with a government friendly to Washington.


Keep dreaming!

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Rono]
    #965780 -

are you still beating this dead horse?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #965797 -

Ignoring it and pretending it's not happening won't make it go away champ...but that may just be the "tinfoil hat" talking again. (or are you finally agreeing with me that it is about oil)


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

Edited by Rono (10/16/02 02:14 PM)

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Rono]
    #965805 -

i know oil is one issue but it's not the only one and is definatly not the MAIN goal...but i could see why you'd think it...just another reason we should drill in Alaska

change the hat from tin foil to aluminum foil...you'll feel better


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #965809 -

If you don't think that oil is the main issue, then I ask you to tell me what the main issue is. Bush still hasn't provided a valid reason..maybe you can?


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Rono]
    #965844 -

terrorism, oil, a murdering dictator, funding homocide bombings, breaking their surrender agreements (which should never be negotiable) I could probably cut and paste other reasons but be honest with yourself, would you really believe bush if he did have a valid reason? I've never seen someone hate bush as bad as you....and you're not even a citizen..


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #965849 -

Why would it matter if I'm an American citizen or not if his idiotic actions affect the world? In all honesty, If he provided a valid reason, I probably would still suspect an alterior motive, but he hasn't given the world the courtesy of supplying ANYTHING in the way of valid justification for invasion....that should speak volumes in itself.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

Edited by Rono (10/16/02 02:44 PM)

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Rono]
    #965896 -

****In all honesty, If he provided a valid reason, I probably would still suspect an alterior motive****

ie: beating a dead horse


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #966172 -

how did I know that you would pick only that statement out of the post to comment on?..Let me re-iterate...Ignoring the issue doesn't change anything no matter how bored you are of the topic.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Rono]
    #966242 -

****how did I know that you would pick only that statement out of the post to comment on?..****

because it's the one where you admit that you don't give a shit what proof he has...you'll ignore it at the same time valadating our distrust of your "proof"...come on rono you're better than this :smirk:

****Ignoring the issue doesn't change anything no matter how bored you are of the topic. ***

condeming your advisary no matter what he or she says is pretty close minded as well...but that's ok it's the libby's way :grin:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #966255 -

I didn't say I wouldn't give a shit about the proof, just that I would still look for alterior motives....which is something everyone should be doing anyways before blindly following their leader. 

If I was a liberal I might get offended by your remarks... :smirk:


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

Edited by Rono (10/16/02 05:13 PM)

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #966398 -

i know oil is one issue but it's not the only one and is definatly not the MAIN goal...but i could see why you'd think it...just another reason we should drill in Alaska
Drilling in Alaska is no solution. That's another example of us selling our souls for some short-term benefits (i.e. lower fuel prices for a very brief period). Look at Louisana. The long term damage of the oil-fields down there is just starting to show. If we don't reroute the Mississippi River now (at an astronomical cost) we're going to lose most of the delta (including New Orleans), and that will cost us way more! Leave Alaska alone in this mad rush for oil. We don't need it.

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Rono]
    #966680 -

Mainstream news has been clued into this for ages.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Phluck]
    #966693 -

What do you consider ages?....and why have I been arguing this issue for so long if it's such common knowledge to everyone?  I'm sure I was debating this with  someone  :wink:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

Edited by Rono (10/16/02 07:26 PM)

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Rono]
    #966954 -

Rono writes:

hy have I been arguing this issue for so long if it's such common knowledge to everyone?

Because it is not common knowledge. It is speculation.

I read through all those links. Fortunately, it took less time than I had anticipated, since three-quarters of it appeared to have been cribbed from a single source. Some observations:

1) Although there were some reports from what most would consider "mainstream" news sources, I hardly think the article by Kenneth Davidson of Dissent Magazine reprinted by Australia's "The Age" would qualify as a mainstream source.

2) No quotes from any administration officials saying that oil has anything to do with it. We have one carefully worded sound bite from a FORMER CIA director, and a report from an oil lobbyist group disguised as a "think tank" which is headed by James Baker. No comment from any current administration official.

3) It is quite plain from several of the reports that even the American oil industry is divided over this issue. Many would prefer to see the Iraqi oil fields hobbled indefinitely, since that keeps the price of crude artificially high and makes their domestic oil fields profitable. The stabilization of the Middle East will inevitably mean a substantial drop in crude prices, rendering their marginal operations a liability.

4) Not a single one of the links would commit themselves to saying oil was the motive, not even the Dissent Magazine guy. All used phrases such as "may be," "could be," "critics say," "contributing factor," etc.

5) When faced with charges that oil is the motive, the administration has consistently denied it. Before you pounce on this and say "Oh, right -- like they are telling the truth!" let me ask you why you choose to believe some "officials" and "government sources" but not others? Either they are ALL liars ALL the time or their words must be taken at face value until PROVEN to be lies. You can't have it both ways.

If you choose to believe US government's major motive for trying to force Iraq's compliance with the surrender agreements (or even to engineer a regime change in Iraq) is strictly "because of the oil", you are of course free to do so. But don't try to present your personal opinion as FACT or as "common knowledge", because it is neither. None of the links you posted today present it as fact. Why do you imply they do?

pinky



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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #966956 -

why does this reason, its all about oil, bother you.
do you still believe in "truth, justice and the american way"?
click on the pic and check the quote from kissinger and bush's adviser -
are you a dolt?


how about this one - this is from a letter sent around 1850 from president millard fillmor to the emperor of japan : "the constitution and laws of the united states forbid all interference with the religious or political concerns of other nations"
your beloved bush is little more than a criminal or racketeer.
why has the world been subjected to terror attacks? cos the usa (and all the other developed countries) are kind and benevolent to their less fortunate brethren? bullshit, cos we exploit the fuck out of them and go out of our way to keep them poor. imagine if every nation had the same proportion of overweight consumers and every nation enjoyed cheap oil and fuel guzzling cars - it wouldn't work.


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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Phred]
    #967054 -

hey pinksharkmark
you expend a lot of energy in your rebuttal of rono's assertion, but offer no better alternatives, in fact you offer fuck all reasons as to why bush is so jumped up about iraq.
c'mon where are your facts that expose the real reasons or confirm bush's current accusations?
also why do you trust the mainstream press? look at who owns these media corporations, or at least has controlling stakes in them. what is their agenda? does the name 'general electric' pop-up, for starters? they won't make any money if there is more war will they?
i agree alternative news sources also have a agenda they want to promote, but a discerning reader should be able to read between the lines.
killing several thousand iraqis thru trade embargos and direct assault is done in the name of love and kindness, right?
the beautiful usa, made up of land stolen from mexico and the native americans, wealth grown on slave labor and an economy based upon the premise that excessive greed is good, too much is not enough.
what a nation to be proud of.

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Phred]
    #967098 -

Pinky once again I feel flattered by your presence, it seems like the only time you post anymore is when I post first. Your loyalty to me is overwhelming...but let's get to it.

1) I post several links and you decide to choose only one that you wouldn't consider main stream...I can live with that.

2) Why on earth would anyone in the administration admit that they were invading Iraq for the oil?...Would it gain them public support?..I think not.

3) To think that any single one of those oil companies wouldn't do anything to get their hands on the oil of Iraq is sheer folly. Whether they use it now or later is irrelevant if they control it...they can alter the price of oil as they see fit.

4) They can't commit to saying that oil is th emotive because until the President just comes out and says it, (and this you are right about) it is just speculation. Speculation surrounded by an overwhelming amount of suspicious "coincidences". Of course nothing can be proven without doubt at the moment...but you would have to blind not to accept the possibility...or should I say the probability

5) Like I said previously...what would they have to gain from admitting that they want Iraq for the oil? ***insert crickets chirping sound here***

Allow me to be blunt...you've had many good rebuttles to my posts...this wasn't one of them.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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Re: Does this look familiar? [Re: Phred]
    #967282 -

Rono, just because someone denies something doesn't mean that it hasn't been reported on lots. It's pretty widely accepted in most places that oil is a definate motive in the US. Everyone knows that the US doesn't get involved in other countries business unless they have some sort of stakes there. Otherwise, they'd have to butt in everywhere.

And pinksharkmark:
"Either they are ALL liars ALL the time or their words must be taken at face value until PROVEN to be lies. You can't have it both ways."

That's the most retarded thing I've read all day. Maybe if you're so brain damaged that you don't have the ability to analyze what someone is saying. Most people, however, have some sort of reasoning skills.

You don't have to choose between blindly believing that everything you hear is false, or blindly believing that everything is true. You can be skeptical of everything, without totally dismissing everything.


There are currently wars going on in:
Somalia
Nigeria
Zimbabwe

Terroist bombings have recently occurred in:

Myanmar
Pakistan
Thailand
Macedonia

Plus various conflicts in countless other places. Yet, the US government certainly isn't involved in all of them. It's bloody obvious that there's other things at stake in the places they are involved.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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