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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #9509303 -

buddhahoodlum said:
Is it really that hard to comprehend this concept?


The concept, on its surface, isn't too hard to understand.  What you seem to fail to comprehend is the difference between an idea and practice.  Moddel himself wrote:

Quote:
The post-doctoral researcher in my lab who was in charge of the project was convinced that he did see energy emission, but I am doubtful.  The experiments were not clean enough and the devices we built were not reliable enough.  Therefore my judgement -- take it or leave it -- is that the technology is still unproven. 


I'm going to re-iterate my claim that you're a troll.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: DieCommie]
    #9510537 -

> Is it really that hard to comprehend this concept?

Can you not read or are you trolling?

"I was referring to the exact statement that I quoted and nothing more."

Your inability to hold an intelligent dialog is starting to become annoying.  Trolling is against site rules and will result in a ban if it continues.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Seuss]
    #9510703 -

I dont understand how a gas passing through plates with lower ZPE would net usable work? :confused:

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: DieCommie]
    #9511022 -

The authors abstract from the patent:
Quote:
A system is disclosed for converting energy from the electromagnetic quantum vacuum available at any point in the universe to usable energy in the form of heat, electricity, mechanical energy or other forms of power. By suppressing electromagnetic quantum vacuum energy at appropriate frequencies a change may be effected in the electron energy levels which will result in the emission or release of energy. Mode suppression of electromagnetic quantum vacuum radiation is known to take place in Casimir cavities. A Casimir cavity refers to any region in which electromagnetic modes are suppressed or restricted. When atoms enter into suitable micro Casimir cavities a decrease in the orbital energies of electrons in atoms will thus occur. Such energy will be captured in the claimed devices. Upon emergence form such micro Casimir cavities the atoms will be re-energized by the ambient electromagnetic quantum vacuum. In this way energy is extracted locally and replenished globally from and by the electromagnetic quantum vacuum. This process may be repeated an unlimited number of times. This process is also consistent with the conservation of energy in that all usable energy does come at the expense of the energy content of the electromagnetic quantum vacuum. Similar effects may be produced by acting upon molecular bonds. Devices are described in which gas is recycled through a multiplicity of Casimir cavities. The disclosed devices are scalable in size and energy output for applications ranging from replacements for small batteries to power plant sized generators of electricity.



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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Seuss]
    #9511820 -

Ahh, thx.  Yea that doesnt seem like it would work to me (big surprise).

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: DieCommie]
    #9516890 -

No Seuss I'm not trolling I was stating a opinion based on what I percieved you were saying.  And I'm still stickin to what I said.  The technology may still be unproven but that doesn't mean it doesn't work they just need more money to fund the experiment.  Also this technology pails in comparison to what Blacklight Power has so it really doesn't matter what happens with this.


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“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #9517390 -

Since you're such a big fan of linked articles, I will refer you to the logical fallacy I have seen you partake in dozens of times in the two crackpot threads I have read of yours.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Redstorm]
    #9529508 -
Log in to view attachment

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Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


Edited by Learyfan (01/01/09 09:23 PM)

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Seuss]
    #9529514 -

Regarding Blacklight, have a look at Earthtech Intl’s experiments on Mills’ work at: http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/index.html ; Earthtech has carefully tried to repeat Mills' experiments multiple times with no success.  It’s a judgment call as to who is right.

Regarding getting energy from ZPE and Maxwell’s demon, as you probably know, Maxwell’s demon was an attempt to obtain energy from a uniform thermal distribution, something that the 2nd law of thermodynamics doesn’t allow.  ZPE is different for a couple of reasons.  First, ZPE is not a thermal distribution.  Rather zero-point radiation exists in a Lorentz distribution, which just means that its density varies with frequency to the third power.  The proof is discussed in Cole & Puthoff, Phys. Rev. E, 48, 1562-1565 (1993).  The second reason, and one that is more to the point for our invention, is that inside a Casimir cavity the ground-state energy has been lowered, and so it’s possible to extract energy from the ambient ZPE, which has a higher ground state that the ZPE inside the cavity.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Garret Moddel]
    #9529978 -

I checked out the Earthtech site and that experiment they did looked similiar but it was not done nearly as professionally as Mills and also without proper guidance from him.  It was also done back in 98 and 2001.  I would think that Randell would have progressed quite a bit with his own experimentation since that time.  Have you checked out his documentary video Garret?  Your explanation for how the cavity separates the ZPE levels makes perfect since and I don't see how that wouldn't work unless are theory of what ZPE is off. Oh and I didn't mean to take away from your invention Garret I just see the Blacklight Power invention being brought to the public a lot sooner.


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“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (01/02/09 06:24 PM)

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Garret Moddel]
    #9531412 -

.

Edited by DieCommie (11/13/16 10:09 AM)

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: DieCommie]
    #9532256 -

DieCommie said:
Secondly, I dont think that atoms have a lower ground state energy in a casimir cavity.  Are you appealing to hydrinos here?  If the ground state is -13.6eV outside the chamber, it will still be -13.6eV inside the chamber.  As the abstract states, the casimir cavity only restricts modes of the ambient EM radiation, it does not change the ground state of an atom.



The ground state energy of a system depends on the full potential it sees.  Thus, the vacuum energy is a small, implicit contribution to this potential for every atom.  If the ground state of the system is -13.6eV in ambient conditions and it enters a region with differing vacuum energy, the potential and thus the ground state energy has just changed.  We usually calculate the ground state of a system "in a vacuum" for simplicity without adding this contribution because the difference is undoubtedly negligible in most cases.

Now I don't know enough about such weird situations to be able to tell you what happens when a system in its ground state suddenly enters a region where its ground state differs.  I suppose it's current state could now be seen as a superposition of the new ground state and the first excited state, with most of the contribution being from the new ground state, so chances are when you measure the energy of the system, you find that it's already in the new ground state.  But a small percentage of the time you find that the system is in the first excited state.

I have a hard time believing, though, that when an atom leaves such a cavity you don't suffer some kind of "pumping losses" when you try to push it into a region with higher potential...

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Garret Moddel]
    #9641478 -

Garret, After spending a considerable amount of time & effort researching practical methods for building Casimir cavities I stumbled across the patent application you filed with Haisch in 2005.  I then stumbled across this forum...

"there may be something that we overlooked in our analysis of it and the concept may not work"

I've read through your patent and I think you missed something fairly obvious... The energy required to push the gas into the Casimir cavity is at least equal to the energy released by the photon.  It looks like this is yet another victory for the laws of Thermodynamics!

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: rgallus]
    #9643239 -

Interesting! :strokebeard:


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: zouden]
    #9643797 -

zouden said:
Interesting! :strokebeard:


You didn't think it was interesting when I said the same thing:

Quote:
I have a hard time believing, though, that when an atom leaves such a cavity you don't suffer some kind of "pumping losses" when you try to push it into a region with higher potential...


:grin:

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #9643973 -

:blush:  :ashamed:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: rgallus]
    #9884404 -

No, the reactionary forces are translated 90 degrees to the temporal axis. This method FORCES normally chaotic virtual particles to organize boundary conditions with hydrino molecules that formed while inside the casimir cavity. The subzero like radius of the orbital was non radiative because it didn't really get smaller -the boundary condition holding the electron away from the nucleus got wider on the time axis and the electron orbital simply remained stationary relative to the boundary now distributed differently to reflect the change in quadric volume inside these exclusion fields. the electron remains at -13.6 eV ground state momentum. If the atom exits the field without forming a molecule it will simply untwist. Dr Mills, Dr Moddel and Dr Haish all failed to realize you need a covalent bond to occur while inside the exclusion field or you gain nothing. A molecule formed outside the cavity would never be able to diffuse as far on the temporal axis as it component atoms so there is no opposite effect for a molecule disassociating inside a cavity. The energy gain is only for bonds formed while the atoms are submerged as far as possible on the time axis. The gain is provided by virtual particles forming organized boundaries with the newly formed molecule's orbitals which are locked into their temporal orientation by the covalent bond. these orientations are preserved by the covalent bond but experience increasing opposition from virtual particles that normally keep orbitals swept into a path of least resistance to the curving time stream between normal space, a casimir cavity and even an event horizon. these hydrinos continue to hold their orientation from the exclusion field and find themselves interleaving themselves into the time stream instead of swept to the shore line of space time. since this already so speculative let me tell you a story about the Casamir cavities cousin, the event horizon....

Johny learns his father's space cruise ship is being sucked into a black hole- unlike most disasters this will be a lifetime tragedy due to relativity -although mere moments for his father it will be hundreds of years before the spaceship is actually crushed by the gravitational forces seeping through the inertial dampers. Johny however is calm because his new invention multiplies a spaceship drives power and dampers far beyond previous levels and he knows that time is now his friend! After years of preparation Johnny and a rescue ship dive into the event horizon toward the doomed ship - As the doomed ship grows larger Johnny initiates the device that will lock their shields together so they can drag the crippled ship out of the gravity well. The rescue ship is able to lock onto the crippled ship on the first attempt and they quickly combine their navigation and engines into a single dual ship mode. they start pulling away from the black holes gravitational grasp and are already approaching the
point where the 2 ships first merged marking their actual starting point on their return. Johnny knows time is traveling faster outside the event horizon and wants to get his father home while there is still family left that will recognize him. As the dualship climbs the gravity well it is pushed by temporal forces forming boundary conditions with the dualships merged fields. Both ships have molecular structures twisted on the time axis by the curved space inside the well which would simply untwist if each ship returned individually but the two fields forming the dualship bond are now locked one against the other unable to twist back to normal even as the dualship
continues to climb the well returning to flat space. The resistance seems to increase in steps and Johny hopes both ships will still have escape velocity when the binding field breaks and both ships break free. With a flash Johnny's ship suddenly emerges from the black and they are immediately contacted by the rescued ship already waiting for them. His father's face appears on the com to tell Johnny only weeks have elapsed since Johnny dove into the black hole and to chide him about taking so long :_) Apparently dad and crew have been waiting 3 days for them to reappear. Johnny then realized the implications of his fathers communication. He assumed that the rescue attempt would return all travelers to a point at least twenty years after the rescue missions entry into the black hole but somehow they were all returned only weeks later. The temporal resistance that eventually tore apart the binding field of the dualship had combined with the ships vector so that the dualship did not follow the curved gravitational well of the black hole back to normal flat space. The dualship had experienced true temporal navigation, the fields acted as temporal rudders their molecular orbitals unable to twist freely with the changing curvature of the well the orbitals became interleaved in the time stream forming boundary conditions with vacuum fluctuations which can lift or submerge a ship from its time frame. the orientations once frozen by the binding field retained an orientation, a resistive rudder angle, that favored that temporal coordinate which combined with ships drive to form a composite temporal spatial vector submerging the dualship into the plane of the gravity well on the shortest return path to flat space. Johnny wondered what would have happened if the field had not broken - if the two ships had escaped the event horizon with their binding field intact ..would they appear like tiny spaceships still miles away or should i say hours away since they would still be displaced on the temporal axis not the normal spatial axis. Would they be torn apart by temporal force the moment they dropped their shields?

The mirror of this animally is two hydrogen atoms entering a Casimir cavity at different times. If they form a covalent bond and try to diffuse back out of the cavity they have a similar dilemma. From one perspective normal space compares to the rushing gravity well of the event horizon and the casimir cavity compares to our normal space-
time. the inverse of time is frequency and unlike an event horizon the activity from our perspective is any atoms or molecules in a Casimir cavity appear to be very fast hence my suspicion that catalysts are just an indicator of casimir cavities. Getting back to the dilemma is that the atoms were on spatial-temporal axis with their orbital boundaries shrinking from our perspective but in a non radiative manner (twisted on the time axis) this "distance" D1 and D2 for the two atoms must be maintained when they exit but forming a molecular bond means they will either return still "twisted" on the temporal axis or the virtual particles will tear the covalent bond apart and release the signature black light plasma as it accelerates through the equivalent of sub zero state shells -actually temporal
axis shells. The stable twisted molecule if possible is actually the more desirable outcome since it would make possible all the science fiction devices described in the first paragraph by providing the "oar" scientists have needed since the beginning of space exploration.

Fran http://www.byzipp.com/energy/

Edited by froarty (03/01/09 05:48 PM)

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: froarty]
    #9886278 -

k


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: zouden]
    #9886309 -

:lol:

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Redstorm]
    #9894176 -
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Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


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