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Re: The "Marijuana has no medical value" out right lie. [Re: jewunit]
    #9433181 -

jewunit said:
It's funny how often proponents of marijuana decriminalization or legalization or whatever turn to arguing against alcohol being legal.

Find a better argument and maybe you'll get somewhere.


He was just pointing out a flawed system using alcohol as his example. I guess im the one asking WTF is going on here. People are going to jail, getting their lives ruined, and loosing their jobs because of this flawed system. How can they continue on doing this?

*edit. Im sure no one has the answer or we wouldn't be this fucked up. But i thought pointing out that patent was a good argument for Medical Marijuana and had to share.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.


Edited by Kada (12/14/08 09:46 PM)

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Re: The "Marijuana has no medical value" out right lie. [Re: rupertbeaner]
    #9433213 -

Issues to address regarding marijuana decriminalization:
1. Addiction potential
2. Abuse potential
3. harm vs good to society
4. Refusal to acknowledge that humans desire to alter their consciousness

any more?

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Re: The "Marijuana has no medical value" out right lie. [Re: jewunit]
    #9433230 -

The reason they turn to alcohol is because it is a good argument. We have to admit it, our culture has a certain bias towards alcohol being acceptable. jesus drank wine with his disciples, The Roman Empire produced great wine, and our own nation has a history with moon shine. We accept alcohol, no matter what the adverse effects, because our culture has put the ACCEPTABLE stamp on it. but when foreign substances come along that our culture doesn't understand, we bring out the fire an pitch forks, in order to "protect" the children. Even though they regularly ingest a substance that is far worse. If our government deems marijuana so terrible, then alcohol must be more so. But the reason it doesn't happen is because such legislation would be WILDLY unpopular, regardless of logical legal thinking. Law works in blankets, it either covers everything, or it covers nothing, everything else is a double standard.


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Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said

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Re: The "Marijuana has no medical value" out right lie. [Re: Jawofmalak]
    #9433248 -

Jawofmalak said:
in order to "protect" the children.


Hah, the people trying to convince me to vote the against gay marriage amendment used that line.

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Re: The "Marijuana has no medical value" out right lie. [Re: rupertbeaner]
    #9433282 -

LOL u guys need 2 read the law.

1. In case anyone tries to bring up cigarettes, the FDA has tried so many times to regulate cigarettes and consequently ban them but Congress said they can suck it.

2. Marijuanas physical properties are not even necessarily relevant when considering scheduling, all that matters is the vendor's intent of what it does.

3. In case you guys are thinking like "Man! The government is all about the money! thats why tobacco and alcohol are legal" you're right. FDA v. Brown & Williamson the Supreme Court said that the economy was more important than health. It's not secret is my point.

4. Alcohol and tobacco may only be used to point out inconsistencies  such as that the drug war is not about health, otherwise it doesnt make any sense to say that "This harmful substance is legal so why cant we have more harmful substances"

I am going to grace you guys with the American Jurisprudence factors in determining drug status (This in case you're wondering is the fucking law righ here)

Quote:
in deciding whether an article is a "drug" under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, the safety of the article is not a determinative factor, as opposed to its intended use or the listing of articles in the Pharmacopoeia. For purposes of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, whether a product is a drug depends not on the physical properties of the product or what effect the product has on humans, but rather on the intended use or effects of the product. Regardless of the classification of a drug, if an article is intended for use in the diagnoses, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease in humans, it is defined as a "drug" under the act. The vendor's intent is the key element in the statutory definition of "drug" as including articles, other than food, intended to affect the function or structure of human body. This includes intent to affect the function or structure of the mind by elevating the psychological condition of its users. Such intent may be determined from labeling, promotional claims, advertising, or any other relevant sources. Thus if a drug is promoted as a treatment or a cure for cancer, AIDS, or other diseases, it is a "drug" under the act.


What I put in bold should clear some things up. As I said this is from 25 Am Jur 2d. The case that the bold print is from is U.S. v. Kasz Enterprises, Inc., 855 F. Supp 534 (D.R.I. 1994), judgment amended on other grounds, 862 F. Supp. 717 (D.R.I. 1994)


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Edited by learningtofly (12/14/08 10:15 PM)

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Re: The "Marijuana has no medical value" out right lie. [Re: Jawofmalak]
    #9433406 -

Jawofmalak said:
The reason they turn to alcohol is because it is a good argument. We have to admit it, our culture has a certain bias towards alcohol being acceptable.


That alone should show why it ISN'T a good argument.

Let alone the fact that any argument that involves alcohol ultimately shows why alcohol should be illegal, not why weed should be legal.


--------------------
!

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Re: The "Marijuana has no medical value" out right lie. [Re: rupertbeaner]
    #9433522 -

rupertbeaner said:
Interesting, has anyone ever heard of Rat Park ?

It was a study done saying that rats that self-administer drugs to themselves only do it because they are in cages, when they are in an open and healthy rat life-style like the 'Rat Park' then they have no desire to administer drugs to themselves.

I thought it was a very thought provoking study on addiction and made question the relation between lifestyle and drugs.


I've heard of this.  All the rats they use in the studies are taken away from their families shortly after birth, raised alone in cages with no toys or any type of stimulation, nothing to sweeten their water... So yeah, imagine growing up in a sterile white room by yourself for as far back as you can remember.

Suddenly, a magical lever appears that gets you really fucked up when you push it.  Of course you'd push the lever.


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My name is Mud

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Re: The "Marijuana has no medical value" out right lie. [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9434056 -

DragonChaser said:
rupertbeaner said:
Interesting, has anyone ever heard of Rat Park ?

It was a study done saying that rats that self-administer drugs to themselves only do it because they are in cages, when they are in an open and healthy rat life-style like the 'Rat Park' then they have no desire to administer drugs to themselves.

I thought it was a very thought provoking study on addiction and made question the relation between lifestyle and drugs.


I've heard of this.  All the rats they use in the studies are taken away from their families shortly after birth, raised alone in cages with no toys or any type of stimulation, nothing to sweeten their water... So yeah, imagine growing up in a sterile white room by yourself for as far back as you can remember.

Suddenly, a magical lever appears that gets you really fucked up when you push it.  Of course you'd push the lever.


Agreed.

Drug studies done w/mice/chimps mean nothing to me for this very reason.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: The "Marijuana has no medical value" out right lie. [Re: rupertbeaner]
    #9434551 -

I don't trust a damn thing the government says. I never will.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The "Marijuana has no medical value" out right lie. [Re: Kada]
    #9434647 -

Kada said:
I don't trust a damn thing the government says. I never will.




--------------------

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go on an overnight drunk, and in 10 days I'm going to set out to find the shark that ate my friend and destroy it. Anyone who wants to tag along is more than welcome.

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