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For Our Obama-Phobic Friends
    #9363882 -

Maybe this story will have some legs after all?

Quote:
CHICAGO - Opponents of Barack Obama will learn this week whether the U.S. Supreme Court will consider a lawsuit contesting the president-elect's citizenship.

The lawsuit filed in New Jersey against Secretary of State Nina Mitchell Wells on behalf of Leo Donofrio originally sought to stay the election.

University of California at Los Angeles legal scholar Eugene Volokh says the case has gained a high profile because it was distributed by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas to other justices for conference. Volokh says it is unlikely the case will be heard.

The New Jersey case is just one of many that have been filed questioning Obama's citizenship. Among those filing lawsuits is Alan Keyes, who lost to Obama in the 2004 Illinois Senate race. Keyes' lawsuit seeks to halt certification of votes in California.

Internet-fueled conspiracy theories question whether Obama is a "natural-born citizen."

------

Information from: Chicago Tribune, http://www.chicagotribune.com

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-il-obamacitizenship,0,5777765.story



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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9363996 -

I hope the lawsuit proceeds and goes all the way.

Not because I believe Obama is not a citizen, but because there is a Constitutional requirement that those who would be President be a citizen. As such, all candidates for the office should be required to prove they do indeed meet the requirements.

Considering the damage that could be done if he turns out not to be, and the small (when taken in context to the outlandish amount spent on the campaign) cost of providing certified copies of the birth certificates to the Secretary of State (or the equivalent) of all 50 states, it seems a logical requirement.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9363997 -

I suspect he is just as eligible as McCain, but I don't understand why he didn't dispel the 'fears' and post his real, unadulterated, birth certificate.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: Seuss]
    #9364069 -

who knows...  If he's a legit citizen then so be it, if not then throw him in prison.


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[quote]skalthren said:
It's nice of you to imply that I've been brainwashed by the government, but the truth is that I'm simply intelligent enough to recognize the subtleties of these issues instead of going "durr hurr, weed should totally be legal!"[/quote]

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: monkeywrench]
    #9364075 -

Why would he be thrown in prison? Shouldn't someone from the election commission be punished for not ensuring his citizenship?

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #9364086 -

luvdemshrooms said:
I hope the lawsuit proceeds and goes all the way.

Not because I believe Obama is not a citizen, but because there is a Constitutional requirement that those who would be President be a citizen. As such, all candidates for the office should be required to prove they do indeed meet the requirements.

Considering the damage that could be done if he turns out not to be, and the small (when taken in context to the outlandish amount spent on the campaign) cost of providing certified copies of the birth certificates to the Secretary of State (or the equivalent) of all 50 states, it seems a logical requirement.



exactly.  In one of the lawsuits the judge ruled that a citizen isn't harmed by a president that's constitutionaly ineligible to serve being elected and therefore has no case or controversy and therefore no constitutional standing.


Bullshit and a half.  Standing is the biggest cop out and allows all manner of bullshit by judges who don't want to do any work or entertain controversial cases.

Is obama citezin?  Almost certainly.  Should the case proceed?  Yes.

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: Redstorm]
    #9364107 -

> Why would he be thrown in prison?

Fraud?

> Shouldn't someone from the election commission be punished for not ensuring his citizenship?

Unlikely.  Constitutional law gets really strange.  For example, there is a clause in the Constitution that makes Hillary Clinton ineligible to hold the Secretary of State cabinet position because she was in the Senate when they voted to raise the salary of that cabinet position.  However, because there is no recourse for violation of that clause in the Constitution, it can be effectively ignored without any repercussions (which is exactly what they are doing).  Apparently Obama is in agreement with Bush about the Constitution being "just a goddamn piece of paper".

Edit: I had to look it up, Article 1 Section 6:
Quote:
No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time.


Basically, if you created a position, or increased the pay for a position, in the government as a senator or representative, then you cannot later enjoy the benefits of that position.

Edited by Seuss (12/04/08 07:42 AM)

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: Seuss]
    #9364119 -

Which clause is that? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I am not familiar with it.

Also, unless Obama takes an oath or signs a contract stating he is a citizen, I'm not sure how he could be charged with fraud. The worst that could happen would be him being removed from office.

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: Redstorm]
    #9364130 -

> Which clause is that?

See my edit above.

> Also, unless Obama takes an oath or signs a contract stating he is a citizen, I'm not sure how he could be charged with fraud.

If the birth certificate he posted turns out to be fake... *shrug*  (not 100% certain, thus the ? after my 'fraud' statement above.)

Also, I really doubt that there is an issue here, but I don't understand why he doesn't simply show his real birth certificate to put the issue to rest.

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: Seuss]
    #9364170 -

I agree 100%. Thank you for providing that clause. I am not familiar with it at all. :smile:

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: Redstorm]
    #9365036 -

Redstorm said:
Which clause is that? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I am not familiar with it.

Also, unless Obama takes an oath or signs a contract stating he is a citizen, I'm not sure how he could be charged with fraud. The worst that could happen would be him being removed from office.



Fraud includes negative representations and omissions if such were done knowingly. 



THe solution is to create an amendment giving all citizens private rights of action against constitutionaly created office holders.

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: Seuss]
    #9365294 -

Seuss said:
  I don't understand why he didn't dispel the 'fears' and post his real, unadulterated, birth certificate.


IMO he's just hiding something about his history thats not illegal but not part of his told story.


(for example: He's our first bastard president.)


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (12/04/08 12:15 PM)

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9365521 -

In re: the emoluments clause.  I recently read somewhere that this is not a deal killer.  All she has to do is accept the pay rate in existence before she became a Senator and voted for the raise.  It's been done before.  Don't ask me for the link.  I forgot it since nobody brought this up earlier.  It is de nada.

And yeah, this whole birth certificate thing is starting to smell like some really old fish.  And if he really was born outside the country, in say Kenya, to a Kenyan father, then he should absolutely be prosecuted for fraud for wasting billions of taxpayer dollars.  I also seriously doubt it will happen.  Who would be President?  SloJoe?


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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9365529 -

zappaisgod said:
  Who would be President?  SloJoe?


oh god please nooooooooo.:smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (12/04/08 12:33 PM)

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9365901 -

zappaisgod said:
In re: the emoluments clause.  I recently read somewhere that this is not a deal killer.  All she has to do is accept the pay rate in existence before she became a Senator and voted for the raise.  It's been done before.  Don't ask me for the link.  I forgot it since nobody brought this up earlier.  It is de nada.

And yeah, this whole birth certificate thing is starting to smell like some really old fish.  And if he really was born outside the country, in say Kenya, to a Kenyan father, then he should absolutely be prosecuted for fraud for wasting billions of taxpayer dollars.  I also seriously doubt it will happen.  Who would be President?  SloJoe?



I'm a bit offened by your use of the term sloejoe. 


What have you done for our country lately?


At least ol' Joe is helping to protect us from the unmitigated siege of the submarine drug smugglers that previously had no laws to restrict their relentless advances.

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: johnm214]
    #9366034 -

johnm214 said:
What have you done for our country lately?



I helped fertilize Long Island Sound.  Very important work and generally done on the hush hush but I can reveal it now.


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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9366216 -

Interesting....  On the joe front, you should reconsider.. he's the man we need to steer this country on a path of pandering mediocracy, and a man of the people and unconstitutional yet politicialy advantageous law (violence against women act et cet).
http://joe-biden.ytmnd.com/

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9366557 -

Good to see so many people are worried about important things like obama's birth certificate, not the collapsing economy or global terrorism...

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9366596 -

How about the abuse and erosion of the first amendment's right to petition the govenrment and  article 3's case and conroversy jurisdicitonal limit on suits?  These are not small matters.


By finding no standing courts can refuse to enforce laws they don't want.  The courts have determined that a citezin does not have an actual case or contreversy with the president or nominee when he is violating the consitution.  Bullshit.

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Re: For Our Obama-Phobic Friends [Re: johnm214]
    #9366718 -

Ha, your righteous rage is appreciated, but misplaced.

If you believe, for even a second, that anyone who brought this case to court brought it because they are the least bit worried about any of the above mentioned reasons, you are sorely mistaken.

This suit was brought for the sole purpose of defaming a candidate for President *before* the election.  You'll remember they tried like hell to get this case heard before election day so that they could attempt to place that one last seed of doubt into the minds of voters.  It's more or less standard Republican politics.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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