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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #9197603 -

BlimeyGrimey said:
Are these in fact a type of Gymnopilus based on the spores?


I would definitely say so.  The ornamentions are some of the smallest I have seen though.  It would be worthwhile if Scout24 could get access to his SEM again so we could see these under electron microscopy.

Thanks for the Key.


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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: gandalf579]
    #9197626 -

gandalf579 said:
Could it be gymnopilus bellulus?


Definitely not.  The spores are way too large.  G. bellulus' spores are 3.5-5.5 x 2.6-3.5 µ.


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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9197656 -

Senor_Hongos said:
gandalf579 said:
Could it be gymnopilus bellulus?


Definitely not.  The spores are way too large.  G. bellulus' spores are 3.5-5.5 x 2.6-3.5 µ.


That's good to know. I don't know shit about spore sizes. I've never bothered to look at any under a microscope before. It was only a guess though because the picture in my guide looks close to his third picture.

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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: gandalf579]
    #9197674 -

Yea , I agree with you. I looked up some bellulus pictures and they do resemble the mushrooms I found.

I can't seem to find anything about very finely ornamented spores.


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Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus species prints. Msg me for trades.

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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: gandalf579]
    #9197702 -

Pictures are always a good place to start.

The Washington clubs are:

http://kitsapmushrooms.org/
http://www.northwestmushroomers.org/
http://www.olymushrooms.org/
http://mycology.wsu.edu/mushroom/
http://www.psms.org/index.html
http://www.scmsfungi.org/
http://www.themushroomclub.com/
http://www.spokanemushroomclub.org/

I noticed from the key no G. liquiritiae have been found in Washington, or at least they weren't labeled that way.

It is imperative I receive stems for any collection so I can attempt to key it out.  Caulocystidia are one of the ways Gyms are identified.  These aren't Psilocybes where ID's can be guessed at from some gill frags and caps.


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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9197745 -


It is imperative I receive stems for any collection so I can attempt to key it out.  Caulocystidia are one of the ways Gyms are identified.

Oh, those gyms and their caulocsytidia!

Hey Senor, do the caulocystidea run all the way up and down the stem?

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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: falcon]
    #9197803 -

They are normally found on the surface of the top of the stem.  You slice the stem longitudinally and look for them. When a stem is scaly or pruinose you probably will find them.

I was just trying to milk some species lists from the Washington clubs online.  Seems some of them are close-mouthed unlike the Western PA club and others.  :smirk:

Way to go for the clubs unwilling to share information online. :thumbup:


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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9197862 -

:smile: Thanks, I'll be looking for them.

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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #9338357 -

All right then.  After receiving a pm, it was determined that these photographs go here:






The conundrum was the spores taken from the stipe and cap.  None of them showed the verrugulose ornamentations consistent with G. luteofolius.  I will be using the data from the previous post and examining the stipe for caulocystidia.  My assumption, based on the macrocharacteristics, is that there will not be any.


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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9338911 -

These are the spores from the "Unknown Gym" sample correct? The oddly finely ornamented spores?

How do the spores compare to Gymnopilus viridans?


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Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus species prints. Msg me for trades.

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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #9339195 -

Yes, that's correct.

The spore are within range in size and ornamentation, however, the absence of caulocystidia rules G. viridans out.  I would have wanted it to be that species, probably as much, if not more, than you.

Macro-shot of the dried stipe near the cap:



Close-up:



As you can see, it does not appear scaly, however that may not mean much if a specimen was handled a lot.  It could still be pruinose and need to be examined microscopically.

Surface under 1000X oil immersion:



As suspected, no caulocystidia were apparent.

Next I'll run this down the key until I hit another choice point where microscopy is needed.


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Edited by Mr. Mushrooms (03/11/09 05:01 AM)

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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9949770 -

Will publish something by this weekend.


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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #9966659 -

Well, I may have discovered something significant.  After treatment with Melzer's for over 1/2 hour the spores are not dextrinoid.  Few Gym species are not.  This may not even be a Gym.  I'll review the thread and photos and list the species that aren't dextrinoid.  Just for kicks I'll throw a gill under the scope with some 3% KOH.



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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #9966873 -

I don't know how I missed this.  I'll have to go back and look at the other photographs.  These mushrooms are NOT Gyms.  Whatever the "fine" ornamentations I thought I saw were a mirage.  These spores are smooth as a baby's ass.  I suspect the mushroom is an active Pholiota.  :confused2:



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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9966903 -

For some reason, whatever internal structures were causing the inclusions disappeared over time.  This is a photo of the spores soon after I receieved them.  Still, this is interesting and useful data.  I've never seen spores change over time other than collapse.  I have no experience with this.  Perhaps some of the other microscopists have noticed something similar.  If so, I'd like to see similar photographic evidence.



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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9969950 -

After hydrating with 3% KOH I was able to finally locate a single cylindrical cheilocystidia, perhaps even a chrysocystidia.  It's angular position made it impossible to focus on the entire structure.  It's at the end of the pointer.



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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9970017 -

I took out a few specimens recently and looked at some of the caps. Some still have faint dots on the caps where they had been bruised. The dots are more of a silvery grey now since it seems to have faded a bit.

I sent a few samples to Alan, I'm hoping he'll do a pDMAB test for activity when he gets them.

Pholiota contorta seems to be a good match except for the bluing part.


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Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus species prints. Msg me for trades.

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Re: New Gym Patch! [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #9970097 -

Interesting.

Did you get the Pholiota contorta from this page?

http://www.mykoweb.com/Pholiota/species/Pholiota_contorta.html

Quote:
Spores 5-6 x 4-4.5 µ (7-8.5 x 4.5-5.5 µ), elliptic to ovate in face view, elliptic to obscurely inequilateral in profile; apical pore very inconspicuous; walls relatively thin; color in KOH dingy ochraceous to pale ochraceous tawny, pale tawny in Melzer's reagent.


Doesn't seem like it to me.

Quote:
Cheilocystidia 24-46 x 7-9 µ, resembling those of P. erinaceella but smaller, (capitate and narrowed irregularly to base), yellow in KOH from a homogeneous content, smooth, thin-walled. Caulocystidia 28-42 x 6-10 µ, clavate, fusoid-ventricose, or with a short apical projection, content homogeneous to coagulated and ochraceous as revived in KOH, walls thin and ochraceous in KOH, smooth.


No caulocystidia were detected after a complete, and thorough, inspection.  The singular cheilocysitida was completely cylindrical, not capitate at all.  I'd say it's close, but not entirely that.

The exciting part is the bluing.  That throws this into another realm entirely.  Hopefully Alan can post the reaction in the thread.  I've love to see it.


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