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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9089189 -

Well I respect people who believe the conservative ideology. But I have lost a lot of respect for people who cannot see/admit how DUMB Palin is. I am sorry but all she does is repeat conservative mantras when asked about how to solve a specific problem. It seems as if blurting out "lower taxes" satisfies every question asked to her. And as for the "issues" at stake here, I feel it is more than just the war and economy. What about torture? What about Guantanamo? What about the manipulation and flatout lies of the last administration? Sure this was Bush, but who do you feel is more likely to change these things...Obama. McCain has promised reform but I want change.

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: supra]
    #9090257 -

supra said:
If votes are split between them all, and everyone voted for who they want, then the one with the majority of electoral college votes would win, regardless of party affiliation.


And here's the problem: is the winning candidate the one that more people like, or the one that is liked by more people? There's a significant difference. If there's 10 candidates but you can only vote once, the vote percentages will add up to 100%. Therefore you only need 10% to win. That means the winning candidate is one that only >10% of people actually like.

Whereas if you can vote for multiple candidates, everyone votes for who they think is acceptable, and the winning candidate will be the one deemed most acceptable by most people. This shows that the voting system is incredibly important. I think it's the most important aspect of a democracy. Without a good voting system, you're handicapped from the start. That's the position America is in - its democracy is handicapped into this two-party system.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: SeerofVisionz]
    #9090361 -

SeerofVisionz said:
What about the manipulation and flatout lies of the last administration? Sure this was Bush, but who do you feel is more likely to change these things...Obama. McCain has promised reform but I want change.


to answer the question "who do you feel is more likely to
change these things", the correct answer is "none of the
above", while Obama talks about change he doesnt put it into
practice, Do you honestly believe that obama is any different?

lets look at his record, when Obama decides to vote he votes
along party lines 97% of the time, while it's not unusual for
a junior senator that meant he agrees with bush 60% of the
time, he votes yes to limiting farm subsidies to farmers
making less than $250k allowing multibillion dollar
corporations to continue gobbling up the money while those
small farmers are going under, what kind of strangle hold
does this put on the foods market, it says to me that obama
works for Big Business

Obama voted Yes to limit farm subsidies in the session
immediately following one of the worst droughts this nation
and even the world has seen in more than a century, this
prevented farmers from being able to run irrigation for those
food crops our very lives depend on helping to ensure a food
shortage that drives the costs higher, He says he's for
energy independence but many of those crops would have gone
into the production of biofuels that would have helped us to
break away from dependence on foreign oil, seems he's changed
his mind on energy independence... again.

he voted yes to $4.6 billion for the Foreign Military
Financing Fund, of which $2.28 billion in grants only for
Israel, $3.03 billion for the Economic Support Fund, of which
$495 million is for direct aid to Egypt, $250 million is for
Jordan, $240 million is for Israel, and $40 million is for
Lebanon, so now we can fund other countries while our own is
failing, a total in this one bill was $32 billion for foreign
operations... since when has Obama been looking out for americans?

Obama voted yes to funding of the war in almost every bill
that crossed his path, to continue funding the Department of
Homeland Security, to make parts of the Patriot act permanent
and in some swift stroke of genius has voted against a bill
for housing foreclosure assistance to aid in creating the
economic problems we have today


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9109027 -

Honestly you can twist anybody's voting record like that, statistics are so malleable it's not even funny.  If nothing else, just think that with McCain as president, we might come face to face with a completely conservative supreme court.  See ya later, Roe v Wade.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: g00ru]
    #9109162 -

and to think, states might be given the option to decide for
themselves on issues like abortion, drugs and the like and not
have to deal with their citizens being prosecuted under federal law

Roe v Wade was another instance of forced legislation through
litigation, a bad way to make laws anyway


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9109597 -

Yeah, lets let all the states decide whether a woman's body is her own.  I guess this is just a fundamental difference of political and social ideology we're dealing with so I'll drop the issue.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: g00ru]
    #9109626 -

A womans body is her own, until she starts sharing it with another life growing inside her. At that point, she is a custodian to it's growth and well being. To kill another is murder, reguardless of how it got there. A woman has no right at that point to decide whether it lives or dies, she is not god. A baby is a baby the second the sperm enters the egg and starts growing, and at that point it is a human being that deserves every right as a child under the age of 18 has.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.


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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: Kada]
    #9109655 -

This argument could go on forever honestly.  Personally, I think it's completely arbitrary to define life as the moment of conception.  It's just not alive yet! It's potentially alive.  I don't think there is a set date of when life begins, honestly. Maybe after 49 days when DMT production begins :lol:  Still, I don't even think it's a moral issue.  If it became illegal in some states, that would just mean that only the rich women in the states where it was illegal could get abortions, and the poor women would be subject to dangerous procedures.  It's not like I'm in love with the idea of terminating a pregnancy, but I think the pragmatic aspects of the issue are to powerful to make it a state by state sort of thing.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: g00ru]
    #9109739 -

Life begins the moment of conception. If it wasn't alive, then why would she need an abortion? It is life, and she doesn't want it there. She just feels inconvenienced that it is there, so she takes the easy way out. I don't see how this is so hard to understand. Abortion is just murder justified to end a personnal inconvenience. This is another example of people doing horrible things with a made up reason to do something wrong for personnal gain. They make up reasons in their heads so they can do things wrong. It is not good.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.


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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? *DELETED* [Re: Kada]
    #9110251 -

Post deleted by asdf512tx

Reason for deletion: k



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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: asdf512tx]
    #9110258 -

asdf512tx said:
Women should have the option of a abortion period. Its not your kid, your life, or your situation. It is not murder, because it is not a human being yet.



--------------------

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: Kada]
    #9110289 -

Is that what you're going to say to the 12 year old rape victim who will probably die along with the child if she was to try and give birth? There's so many gray areas with abortion. That's why it's such a sensitive subject.

In my personal opinion, it should be the right of the woman, and the right of the doctor, to carry out this procedure. Sure, it's pretty gruesome. But to be harshly cynical, as I am a lot of the time, there's too many people in the world as it is.

I knew this whore who had about 5 abortions. Now she's pregnant and I guess she's keeping this one... it would be poetic justice if it was a miscarriage. That girl is so god damn ignorant, that child would be better off dead anyway.

And also, I think there's a big difference between being "alive" and being "aware."

If you look at the nature and instinctual actions of a growing fetus...... it's like a parasite. Just a thought.


--------------------

Hemp could Save the World.

"There is no flag that is large enough, to hide the shame of a man in cuffs." -Serj Tankian


:mushroomgrow:Know Thyself.:mushroomgrow:

"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
-Terence Mckenna

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: Kada]
    #9110295 -

Well, for a while, it is basically equivalent to an amoeba, or other very tiny life form. To back up your moral argument there, you would have to feel ashamed using antibiotics or tenting your house for termites.

I think irresponsible abortion is a bad thing, but if it's illegal, people will do it anyway, just with coathangers in motel rooms and likely die. Maybe it's just me, but if given the opportunity at a very, very early stage in the pregnancy, it seems more responsible to terminate the pregnancy in certain situations. Let's say a 15 year old tweeker gets raped and has no plans to quit using while pregnant. :shrug:

I don't think it's quite black and white, but I don't think outlawing abortion is the answer. Don't forget, it won't stop abortions, only safe abortions.

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: Kada]
    #9110381 -

Kada said:
Life begins the moment of conception. If it wasn't alive, then why would she need an abortion? It is life, and she doesn't want it there. She just feels inconvenienced that it is there, so she takes the easy way out. I don't see how this is so hard to understand.


It's easy to understand: you think women shouldn't be allowed to have abortions, while I think they should be allowed to choose. Stop forcing your beliefs on others.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: zouden]
    #9110580 -

didn't life begin a billion years ago and isn't it a continuous process :confused: ?


--------------------

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: Kada]
    #9110640 -

Yeah I thought the definition of life was philosophically hard to pin down, but thanks for clearing that up Kada, humanity owes you a debt of gratitude.


--------------------
:duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead:

i'm a spy huntin rap dinosaur from the future

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: sam420]
    #9110748 -

No problem. If you want any anwser just ask me, jesus talks to me in my sleep.

Im joking. Honestly i will admit i was board and wanted to see where that would go.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.


Edited by Kada (10/21/08 04:32 PM)

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9111015 -

Quote:
obama
works for Big Business



And McCain doesn't... by giving tax cuts to the wealthy Ceo's?:confused:

Quote:
Obama voted yes to funding of the war in almost every bill
that crossed his path,


If you vote against funding the war, people like John McCain will call you "unpatriotic" and imply that you want your own soldiers to die. It is a known fact that Congress could have easily voted against funding the war and flat out end it right then and there, but they would be characterized as "wanting defeat", not caring for the soldiers lives, etc. etc.

Maybe you can suggest the changes McCain will bring? Because I see none. He really hasn't promised anything new at all.

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: asdf512tx]
    #9111055 -

asdf512tx said:
Women should have the option of a abortion period. Its not your kid, your life, or your situation. It is not murder, because it is not a human being yet.


drugs are illegal, can you still get them or have they disappeared all together


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: I'm supporting McCain, ok? [Re: SeerofVisionz]
    #9111118 -

SeerofVisionz said:
Quote:
obama
works for Big Business



And McCain doesn't... by giving tax cuts to the wealthy Ceo's?:confused:


or Obama giving money directly back to large corporations

Quote:
Quote:
Obama voted yes to funding of the war in almost every bill
that crossed his path,


If you vote against funding the war, people like John McCain will call you "unpatriotic" and imply that you want your own soldiers to die. It is a known fact that Congress could have easily voted against funding the war and flat out end it right then and there, but they would be characterized as "wanting defeat", not caring for the soldiers lives, etc. etc.



Oh boo hoo, so some one in congress calls obama a bad name,
maybe they pick on him about the ears as well, certainly
people arent saying Ron Paul is unpatriotic and he's been
extremely outspoken against the war AND voted against funding
it, Obama just blows hot air, obama only says he's against
the war because people told him they didnt like it, in one of
his TV spots he says "I'm the only major candidate that
opposed the war from the beginning", guess what, there's only
2 major candidates, if he was talking about during the
primaries then he's a liar on that count, regardless, he's
mislead people into believing HE ACTUALLY VOTED AGAINST IT,
he wasnt even in the senate, again, that makes him a liar

Quote:
Maybe you can suggest the changes McCain will bring? Because I see none. He really hasn't promised anything new at all.


Obama has really only promised change, but he's yet to define
change, McCain and Obama both will give us nothing


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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