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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Veritas]
    #9018134 -

badchad said:
Besides, the people that are losing the most (thus far) are people who are heavily invested, and have significant assets.  Right now, a lot of people are complaining about the economy when it hasn't even affected them.


IT has but "fairly"; the value of our dollar has gone way down. A car in the 60's was 3,000 dollars now they are 30,000...

The biggest problem we have is the Federal Reserve! the way our system works the value of the dollar can never go up! only down. And most don't even understand this or why.


--------------------
Golden is usually the color of my Heart ; But In fall my mind only sees Blue

??

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: IndianSpirt]
    #9018161 -

Thank you for everyone who jumped on this. On a related note, I wasted half an hour yesterday trying to explain to a teenager why governments cant just print out more money to increase wealth and decrease debt.

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Veritas]
    #9018174 -

Veritas said:
badchad said:
I dont think giving 1,000 to each citizen would do very much good.  Thats barely a month's rent in most places.

Besides, the people that are losing the most (thus far) are people who are heavily invested, and have significant assets.  Right now, a lot of people are complaining about the economy when it hasn't even affected them.


I think that everyone has been impacted by the foreclosure rate doubling, by outrageous gas prices, by unemployment increasing, by credit becoming much more difficult to obtain, by the housing market slump, etc...etc...

This is not just a rich person's problem.  :shrug:


Start printing up the black and silver American flags, lets doooo it

:tarantino:

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #9018197 -

This was just removed from ytmnd.com.

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Veritas]
    #9018238 -

Veritas said:
The "bailout" involves government purchase of troubled assets, not a gift to the executives of financial institutions.  If these assets remain on the books of these institutions, they will be forced to reduce the amount of credit they offer to small businesses across the country.  Once these businesses have no access to credit, they will begin to lay off employees.  Eventually they will fail.  Then the larger businesses which depend upon income from these small businesses will lay off employees.  Eventually they will fail.

Anyone who thinks that this domino effect will be beneficial for our economy is free to explain why.


Say these large companies don't get bailed out of their bad assets, and that results in a domino effect. GOOD. Let's start from scratch, then maybe something can actually change. If we just keep patching a broken system, eventually maintenance is going to take us down with it.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Kickle]
    #9018252 -

The U.S. economic system will be forced to change in either case.  The difference will be whether it changes while even more of the least-fortunate members of society become homeless and destitute, or whether it changes while fewer of the least-fortunate members become homeless and destitute.

It won't be the wealthy who feel the pinch.

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Veritas]
    #9018262 -

I thought the wealthy were feeling the pinch, an we've been experiencing a trickle down effect.

How exactly can banks go under, and businesses fail, without the executives of those companies feeling a pinch?


edit: If I thought this bailout was anywhere close to making a change on the fly, I'd support it. But with all the Pork in it, it's even more blatant that it's just another attempt to fix the immediate and worry about the rest when it comes up again.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Edited by Kickle (10/02/08 01:09 PM)

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #9018299 -

LAME. I'm sure you've called.? I finally got one just yesterday at a machine shop. I will be making 10 an hour, with a guaranteed 40 hour week, benefits after 90 days, etc etc. Finally.  It's only been since the end of May. i know a lot of people are going through the same shit right now. I think that a revolution is coming. People like us, I feel are just going to get fed up with the way this country is ran, and revolt. OR, just set up communities in the middle of nowhere where we will grow lots or marijuana and mushrooms. And we will live off the earth... Or sell the drugs to make money to buy shit we need.... A little off topic.. Sorry.

Anyway, I honestly do hope you get something soon. No one should have to live out of a dumpster, or even consider doing so. Whatever happened to the land of opportunity? BUNK!


--------------------
"If I had a single wish, I would have every single human on this planet see this natural world the way I see it; the beauty in such simple things such as a fallen tree that is covered in moss and that has new trees growing from it. To some, fallen trees are ugly. But in reality, it is the circle of life at its finest. This is a beautiful world, its time that we recognize that before its all gone."

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: misos]
    #9018342 -

lawl @ this thread :smile:

The "Government asset-swap initiative" (i refuse to continue calling it a bailout) is necessary and without it our economy will be in MUCH worse shape than with it.

So, yay!

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Kickle]
    #9018544 -

Kickle said:
I thought the wealthy were feeling the pinch, an we've been experiencing a trickle down effect.

How exactly can banks go under, and businesses fail, without the executives of those companies feeling a pinch?



Wealthy people have savings & assets which they can liquidate.  The working poor will be the hardest hit & the first hit in any economic downturn.  In a serious economic crisis, the working poor will be added to the homeless population.

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Veritas]
    #9018687 -

truth.

people keep throwing out the "we have to teach those wealthy 'fat cats' a lesson and not bail them out now that they're hurting!

in truth - they'll just live lean for a while, while all the people crying for the 'fat cats' to be punished will be the ones in pain.

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: memes]
    #9018742 -

Not to mention the fact that the main reason these financial institutions are in trouble is that they gave sub-prime home loans to the working poor.  As soon as these folks lost their jobs, they couldn't keep up the payments & the bank foreclosed.  Now these banks have houses sitting on the market in economically-depressed areas, with little or no hope of sale.

Claims of mismanagement which deserves "punishment" instead of the "reward" of the government purchasing these houses are quite baseless.  Yes, greed was probably a motivating factor in offering high-interest loans to the working poor.  Yes, many executives made lots of money in the process. 

But these practices would not be considered mismanagement if everything was going well.  The stockholders of these banks would be pleased, as their portfolios continued to grow & they received great dividends.  The employees of the banks would be happy, as they received raises & promotions from profitable institutions.  The business owners would be happy, as their businesses continued to receive credit at favorable rates.

We're only declaring mismanagement after the fact, and cherishing the illusion that allowing a huge portion of the financial sector to fail will somehow punish those who have "screwed up."  :rolleyes:

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Veritas]
    #9019568 -

I don't pretend that the closer you are to the bottom, the quicker you hit it has no merit. But it would impact the rich. I'm not saying the rich are more worthy of receiving punishment than anyone else, I'm saying they will feel it also. I didn't make any claim to the contrary. I merely responded to a comment saying the wealthy won't feel the pinch.


As for why I'm against the bailout, as I stated before, I think it's time for a rebuilding, not just some putty on yet another crack. The point isn't to make people suffer, but rather to not drag it out and prolong it. Like pulling a band-aid off in one tug or slowly peeling it off.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Edited by Kickle (10/02/08 06:08 PM)

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Kickle]
    #9019595 -

i say, why not kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

700 billion is enough to give every american with a mortgage $22,000.  Or enough to pay off every single mortgage with a balance of less than $75,000.

And yes, it is ridiculous to mitigate the risks these companies took that did not pay out.  They were overly greedy and instead of making steady profit, wanted tons of money fast.  The 'bailout' should be from the pockets of the CEO's and other executives pocketing millions of dollars a year, not from the pockets of your average american.

peace

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: supra]
    #9019617 -

supra said:
i say, why not kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

700 billion is enough to give every american with a mortgage $22,000.  Or enough to pay off every single mortgage with a balance of less than $75,000.



That's the best idea I've seen proposed.
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Edited by Kickle (10/02/08 06:14 PM)

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Veritas]
    #9019658 -

If we gave a million to all, out money would become worthless. Too much in circulation.

In Europe the govs nationalized their failing banks, taking the good and bad, here we will take only the bad and we'll be the ones suffering. Americans are some dumb fucks, makes me wanna hide my face in shame being from here. Remember, as Carlin said, these people we elect are from here. Shit citizens make a shit elected government to govern shit people. This plan is knee jerking, slow witted fast action.


--------------------

Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

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Re: i KNEW the bailout was totally insane, now i know even more [Re: Kickle]
    #9019708 -

Kickle said:
supra said:
i say, why not kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

700 billion is enough to give every american with a mortgage $22,000.  Or enough to pay off every single mortgage with a balance of less than $75,000.



That's the best idea I've seen proposed.
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


Not really. At least there is an opportunity to get tax payer money back with the bailout. Depending on how long the assets are held. If you just give all mortgage holders 22,000 the money is gone. Plus why should people who are renters bailout people with mortgages with their tax money. I would be outraged. I am still a renter not because I can't get a loan but because I believe stability is important when making a decision like buying a home.

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