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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies
    #8992872 -

Quote:
In 1999 there was roughly $5 trillion in total U.S. mortgage debt. That number ballooned to $12 trillion by 2007, and we know what happened from there (data is from the U.S. Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight). To put this into perspective, total U.S. GDP is about $11 trillion annually, and U.S. government debt is around $9 trillion. If the housing market really falls apart (meaning more than conservative estimates of a 20% drop), there’s no way the government can simply cover these losses.

Why did it happen? Let’s go back to 1999, when Fannie Mae, the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, was under pressure by the Clinton administration to find a way to get more loans to “borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans.” A pilot program was launched, which soon became general policy. Money flowed to people who couldn’t afford to pay it back.

How The U.S. Government Engineered The Current Economic Crisis, TechCrunch




So: the current economic crisis was caused by actions almost a decade ago, when for political reasons our financial apparatus was encouraged to do what does not make sense in the physical, mathematical world of commerce.

Shows what gov't is good for: subsidizing the clueless at the expense of everyone else.

But they did it with good intentions:

Quote:
In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

Fannie Mae officials stress that the new mortgages will be extended to all potential borrowers who can qualify for a mortgage. But they add that the move is intended in part to increase the number of minority and low income home owners who tend to have worse credit ratings than non-Hispanic whites.

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending, The New York Times





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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Conservationist]
    #8992945 -

Well, it's a good thing Bill Clinton isn't running for President.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8993084 -

Yes , but a dyed in wool community organizer liberal is.  It should give everyone screaming fantods that this fuck is just a few million retards away from being president.


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8993122 -

Just for the record, I don't believe the posted article at all.

I've heard that the current administration has been warned several times over the course of its tenure that these completely unregulated securities were getting out of hand and that some limits should probably be placed on them.

If the Republican party is whats going to save us from this crisis, which they claim is Democratically created, why didn't they try to stop it BEFORE it happened?

Where were the warning, if your Savings & Loan Soothsayers are so economically prescient?

If these loans that Clinton was supposedly pushing for were such horrible ideas why wouldn't Bush change policies about them when he came to office?  Hundreds of thousands of bad mortgages have been signed since then.  Where was the oversight?  Why the outrage NOW?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8993156 -

Madtowntripper said:
Just for the record, I don't believe the posted article at all.

I've heard that the current administration has been warned several times over the course of its tenure that these completely unregulated securities were getting out of hand and that some limits should probably be placed on them.

If the Republican party is whats going to save us from this crisis, which they claim is Democratically created, why didn't they try to stop it BEFORE it happened?

Where were the warning, if your Savings & Loan Soothsayers are so economically prescient?

If these loans that Clinton was supposedly pushing for were such horrible ideas why wouldn't Bush change policies about them when he came to office?  Hundreds of thousands of bad mortgages have been signed since then.  Where was the oversight?  Why the outrage NOW?



Both Bush and McCain warned against this several years ago.  Congress wouldn't go along.  You do know that Congress writes the laws, don't you.  Community Reinvestment Act, baby.  Welfare kills and the CRA was a welfare plan for bad credit risks.  Unregulated?  FM and FM were quasi government agencies that were about as heavily regulated as you can get.  Likewise the insurance industry.  The gummint regulated that they be required to lend money to bums.  What a surprise that the bums can't pay.


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8993192 -

The Bush administration tried to change things in 2001 and again in 2003. Unfortunately, the warning in 2001 happened to hit the papers on Sept 11, 2001. Things got lost in the shuffle for a while.

But even the New York Times reported Bush's push in 2003 for reform of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. Not for the first time, some of the Republicans in Congress failed to go along with Bush on an issue he felt important, so that effort on Bush's part was no more successful than his 2001 attempt.

This is not necessarily to praise Bush as some financial genius - he was not the first to try to stir up action on the issue. That honor goes to Ralph Nader, who as far back as 2000 was carping on the situation. No one remembers this because no one takes Nader seriously on anything, but every now and then even a blind pig will find an acorn.

There is no question the beginnings of this whole mess are directly traceable to the Community Reinvestment Act in all its subsequent incarnations. Once again we see the road to hell is paved with good intentions.





Phred


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Conservationist]
    #8993498 -

Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies

I think that theory is scraping the bottom of several very deep barrels in the hope of shifting blame.

The mortgage crisis was caused by certain companies realising that taking ever greater risks resulted in ever greater profits. Executives encouraged by obscene salaries and bonuses followed this policy into the abyss.

If we do introduce socialism to save the free market then we need to ensure we socialise their profits as well as their losses.

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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: riceandpeas]
    #8993700 -

If they were forced to give loans to bums (Community Reinvestment Act) then how can you blame them?


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Conservationist]
    #8993720 -

Ok, regardless of whether there is an actual link between those policies and this crisis, you have to realize that the economy was doing excellent in the Clinton years, and that many, many of the defaulted mortgages would have been paid off if we had kept that economic climate.  In other words the policies were acceptable to their time period, and any possible stress they have caused to the current crisis are due to the failed economic policies of the Bush administration.  You're failing to connect all the dots here, even the blatantly obvious ones.


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Ferris]
    #8993864 -

Total fiction.  Aside from the nonsense that these bums would have paid their loans off, Clinton spearheaded the expansion of the CRA.  As to overall economic policy, even with this banking poop it is in better shape than Clinton left it.  Do not ever forget that Bush inherited a recession from Clinton.  So far we don't have one.


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8993891 -

Talk about absolute nonsense.

Show me two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth while Clinton was the President.  You can't, because it never happened.

Not to mention your absurd statement that an economic downturn while Clinton was President was his fault, and one that happened during Bush's Presidency was, somehow, also the fault of Clinton.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8993934 -

It's not all nonsense. The CRA was given far more emphasis and teeth during the Clinton administration. That's when it became not just a feel-good Libbie politically correct sop to community organizers, but an actual threat to the economy.

Note I don't blame Clinton for this. It was Congress, not the Executive, who is to blame for this.

Anyone who tries to pretend this could have happened without the CRA is just being pig-headed. It's at the root of the entire mess.





Phred


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Phred]
    #8993939 -

I was referring to his assertion that there was a "Clinton Recession", which is a fable Republicans have been trying to make fact for almost 10 years now.  Only when people talk about a "Bush Recession" do they begin mentioning the text-book definition of a recession.  That part of his statement was nonsense.

As to your post; Hindsight is 20/20.

Again, it if was so obvious that this would be the end result of this bill then the Republicans would have done something about it for the six years they controlled both houses of Congress and the Presidency.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8993996 -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

read up and make you own assement... i could care less who you want to blame. because regardless of who caused it, who warned about its shortcomings, and who proposed, and who failed to fix it, the fact remains that it needs to be fixed.

however hard to say lets get rid of an act that is intended to help lower income famillies, and rebuild the dead and dieng communtties around the country.... until shit hits the fan and the bottom falls out that is of course.

No good deed goes unpunished, i guess.


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: hamandcheese]
    #8994086 -

My opinion is that the core of the act is good, but that it has become an excuse for bad lending practices.  Nobody is MAKING the lending agencies make bad loans; that's stretching the extent of the act too far.  The act still allows for the agency to make checks on credit, just disallows them from focusing on certain markets, which would have accelerated urban decay in areas like Detroit.  It also had nothing to do with the business practice of not backing mortgages with deposits, which should have been regulated.  I mean, come on, that last part almost mirrors one of the root cause of the great depression.


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Ferris]
    #8994126 -

An excuse?  An EXCUSE?  It was mandated.  The government interfered with the market and we get this.  Banks never would have loaned money to these fucks because they weren't likely to pay it back.  They gummint said they must.  If you want to give low income losers a chance to buy a house do it with your money, not mine.  Thank you Mohatma Gandhi.


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8994134 -

Individual loans were NOT mandated


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8994149 -

zappaisgod said:
An excuse?  An EXCUSE?  It was mandated.  The government interfered with the market and we get this.  Banks never would have loaned money to these fucks because they weren't likely to pay it back.  They gummint said they must.  If you want to give low income losers a chance to buy a house do it with your money, not mine.  Thank you Mohatma Gandhi.



Oh please, banks were loving this whole arrangement.  I haven't heard from anyone except you that they gave out these loans because the government FORCED them to.  They didn't care because the mortgages were just being bundled and sold off as investments.

Revisionist History.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8994172 -

Madtowntripper said:
I was referring to his assertion that there was a "Clinton Recession", which is a fable Republicans have been trying to make fact for almost 10 years now.  Only when people talk about a "Bush Recession" do they begin mentioning the text-book definition of a recession.  That part of his statement was nonsense.

As to your post; Hindsight is 20/20.

Again, it if was so obvious that this would be the end result of this bill then the Republicans would have done something about it for the six years they controlled both houses of Congress and the Presidency.



If the Republicans had acted like Republicans as John McCain and George W. Bush asked, maybe they would have.  Many others decried this socialist shell game as well.

As to your assertion that Clinton left no recession I call bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3691

Further, a strong argument could be made that he is also responsible for the financial damage due to 9/11 since it was easily within his means to kill bin Laden quite some years previous had he had the nads.  But we all know where his nads were.  They were in the chubby interns mouth.


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Re: Mortgage Crisis was Caused by Liberal Policies [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8994193 -

Let's ignore this current branch of thought for a second and reflect on what the lending climate might have been like without the CRA.  All the powerful agencies would have focused on the prime markets, leaving small banks with even smaller deposit holdings to cover the poor areas and other bad markets.  Obviously, the failure rate of these banks would have been high (bailouts anyone?)

We would have seen seen extreme rises in homeless populations and unemployment, industrial sector collapses.  I mean, just use your imagination, since it's a very subjective subject.  It's simply a matter of how bad it would have been.

I'd also like to preempt any suggestions of older regulatory practices, because the entire nature of corporations and M2 and M3 currency structure was in fluctuation, as it is now.


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