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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: Icelander]
    #8958509 -

Icelander said:
The nice thing about the mystical vs materialistic approach is that the mystic can keep doing the work around until everything fits.

While the mystical approach certainly feels good on so many levels it can't get by my reality meter so unfortunately I can't make use of it. For some silly reason I think being logical and truthful with myself is important. That might be my mistake but it's too late now.


The nice thing about the materialistic vs mystic approach is that the materialist can keep going around doing the work and pretending it fits.

While the materialistic approach certainly feels good on so many levels it tends to clog the reality filter so unfortunately it makes use of you. For some important reason the materialist defines being logical and truthful with the self to be silly. We can keep on making the mistake forever if we decide it's too late now.


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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: deCypher]
    #8958668 -

"This theory is all very well and good, but how do you know this?"

I was not theorizing, I was interpreting a synthesis of my own experience plus the experiences of other beings who have interpreted the phenomenologically same experience and written about it in various sources.

Once I absolutely needed non-ordinary realities to know this. Now, I see it in every eco-system, in astrophysics, in quantum mechanics, in the multiple systems that comprise any biological creature, especially human beings, in the simplest of cells - their structures and processes. Everything that works is an Idea, a Great Idea, a Platonic Pure Form, an Idea in God. The only thing that keeps me from being ecstatic is evil - the collective choices that human beings make against the expansion of Compassionate Consciousness - in a word: assholes.

Average assholes on the highways, but much bigger legislative assholes who create assinine laws that make good people into criminals. The uniformed asshole law-and-order caste who enforce the assinine laws, the asshole judges who take glee in judging and sentencing people based on assinine laws, and the penal institutions into which one is placed only to be ripped a whole new anal asshole by all the violent rapist assholes who actually do belong in a cage. The warpig assholes comprise a whole other eschalon of assholes.

I could on and on with this rant, but the truth is that I treat others as I want to be treated myself. The Golden Rule. I am no threat to others. I minimize my consumption of resources as best I can without living in a cave or a teepee. I strive to leave this campsite a nicer place than it was before I got here because my own Realizations are being translated into 'restoration' of this sphere (the Earth and material plane). I have one home, and I have no desire to play chess with young people's lives. I would not shoot a wolf except in self defense, if I owned a gun. Talk and writing is easy. It's in the manifestation of Truth that Truth is communicated. I pray that I don't become another actual asshole, call me what one will.

And yes, bigotry which is the embodiment of ignorance rears its multiple heads like the Beast of Revelations, all too often at The Shroomery. Some people will discover like Mickey Rourke did in the film 'Angel Heart,' that he himself is the evil he feared and hunted. Like Pogo's famous words:
"We have met the enemy, and he is us!"


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8958782 -

I don't know why but I somehow agree. What I think I see is that life, humanity, "Being", etc, is not so much emergence than it is convergence. In the beginning was the verb, and it was "converge !" Not necessarily toward a definite end but simply toward itself, further and further.

For now we are passed cosmic dust, although we came from there, and we now are in the business of asking questions and of reproducing to roughly overcome death. Maybe human thoughts are the threshold where convergence start modifying itself to converge more. Maybe we'll never see where is our limit, just like a dog doesn't know it's stuck with dog thoughts and faculties. Ours might simply extend beyond knowing of convergence itself, but that is no safety net, for thoughts are thoughts are thoughts. Thoughts morphing thoughts with tools into something stronger might be a solution.

Edited by deimya (09/20/08 12:48 PM)

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: deimya]
    #8958854 -

If you mean self-reflective by convergence, then I can understand that looking at our true nature we see everything. Emergence and convergence seem to remind me of extraversion and introversion, but on a cosmic level. I think both movements have to occur at once. We, as a human race, have to emerge and learn to colonize other worlds, but at the same time we have to develop our inner nature. Humans, as they are today, are too mean and stupid to traverse interstellar space. I hope there is a universal trend that contradicts those sci-fi stories of technologically advanced, evil aliens. I hope moral development accompanies intellectual development. Hell-beings should have to remain bound to their own planetary spheres until they evolve morally and spiritually.

Sci-fi would be boring for violence-loving primitive human beings if there were no blood-drinking Martians, insectoid conquerors in saucers the size of cities, or rodent-eating reptilians in human-skin costumes draining our planet of water and capturing humans for food. Of course, this evil is only really fun if we kill them in the end - the same as fairytale morality. There are just so many E.T. and Close Encounters aliens in our collective imagination. Being evil ourselves, we project out primitive nature onto the cosmos and expect the worst.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: deimya]
    #8958859 -

mark,
are you suggesting that,
through the use of psychedelics,
you have come to the realization that: "the universe is made up of assholes"?


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8958896 -

LOL! :laugh: No, just the universe of human evil.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8958960 -

I'd counter this by saying there is no such thing as absolute good or evil--we only judge people's actions based on a neurobiological system of empathy and relative sense of help or harm that we get from the person in question.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8958964 -

That's not what I meant by convergence. Approximate self-reference is a by-product and by no mean the end all be all. It sure is cool though.

Perceptually, take a hot ball of stuff, dilute it fast and you get planets on the surface of which roll meat-balls of various sizes, forms and colours. Keep on doing it and you get thoughts and realizations of various depth and pertinence; it's like an ever ending bag full of strings on which you pull in all directions as to make ever entangled, intricate knots and braids. And some of these knots braid around as to have a perceptual world out of which they tangle back and forth in time and scale and compute these big-bang stories or whatnot, giving themselves various ontologies of their ever penetrating and deepening perceptual surroundings. But at the end of the day, it keeps on converging, it keeps on tightening these knots and braids here, there, now, everywhere, every ways, and it keeps on morphing its ideas and forms; I really doubt we'll keep telling these stories of atoms and stars and self-reference forever, for they are told and rest, in the strictest sense, upon moving grounds.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: deCypher]
    #8959113 -

That goes without saying. The sun will nova and fade without conscious concern for the inhabitants of Earth. WE are concerned however! But that is 'natural evil,' from a human perspective. I'm talking about conscious, deliberate, human evil from everyday selfishness and callousness and rip-offs (i.e., assholes), to Atilla the Hun, Ghengis Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Darfur, Bin Ladin, serial killers, etc.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: deimya]
    #8959152 -

Well, I'm all for teleology - purposefulness of whatever evolutionary-involutionary processes you care to isolate. There is the infinitely simple and the infinitely complex. Kinds remids me of the Buddhist Dorje - 5 Buddha Energies (like the 5 Elements) emerging from a point, a singularity, into a diversity of samsaric complexity, only to merge again into a point of indivisible simplicity which blips out into the Void whence the whole process arose.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8959213 -

Teleology is unappealing to me but I understand that this "convergence" business might be interpreted that way. Yet purposefulness I see and mean none, but "doing-ness" I see all around, including in the search or thought of purpose. It's neither a push nor a pull, but whatever, we never quite understand each other. Peace out :sun:

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8959214 -

If the majority of people try to do unto others as they would have others do unto them, it's only natural to take advantage of the system.

Perfect altruism fails as soon as someone gets the bright idea that they can reap more benefits by stealing from the good people.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: deCypher]
    #8959504 -

personally I find it quite charming that the universe could actually made up of assholes
it could revolutionalize everything.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8959514 -

Very, very, very, very, very small assholes.  :smile:

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: Veritas]
    #8959549 -

This is OTD material. :nonono:

Where is a mod when you need one? :rolleyes:


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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8959563 -

We are postulating as to the true nature of reality. :snub:

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: Veritas]
    #8959579 -

Uh huh...


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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8959585 -

Witty riposte!  :smile:

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: Veritas]
    #8960151 -

Veritas said:
Very, very, very, very, very small assholes.  :smile:


Black holes in space.

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Re: Eckhart Tolle: "Being" [Re: Icelander]
    #8961146 -

"The nice thing about the mystical vs materialistic approach is that the mystic can keep doing the work around until everything fits.

While the mystical approach certainly feels good on so many levels it can't get by my reality meter so unfortunately I can't make use of it. For some silly reason I think being logical and truthful with myself is important. That might be my mistake but it's too late now."


Once upon a time there were two school chums: Friedrich Wilhelm Joseph von Schelling (1775-1854) and Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel (1770-1831). Schelling was the innovator, Hegel took Schelling's stuff and became more famous, but:

"Hegel boldly affirms that reason is fundamental and ultimate for God and humanity: 'What is real is rational, and what is rational is real.' The very essence of God is rational dialectic, as is his self-realization in history...Art, religion and the human's quest for freedom are all aspects and functions of Divine Reason's self-comprehension. Hegel believes that he writes the definitive biography of God. He is the most ambitious thinker of a long rationalist tradition that stretches back to Aristotle, Plato, and Parmenides. He is also the last.

Schelling always held a more modest view of reason, which earned him Hegel's scorn...Schelling's modesty about human reason reflects his doctrine of God. He recognises the Ungrund - the groundless, nonrational, spontaneous, fully free element in the divine nature. In this he is more faithful to Boehme than to Nicholas Cusa (and Hegel), who define define God's essence as dialectical reason. The rationally open nature of God means that the creation of the world and the reality of evil cannot be explained fully and that human history cannot be predicted. God's freedom entails human freedom because humans participate in God. History is a genuine adventure in which God and humanity cooperate in mutual enrichment and fulfillment. Nothing is predetermined except that evil and suffering will ultimately be eliminated when God and the fully humanized world are all in all."

- Panentheism: The Other God of the Philosophers by John W. Cooper, pp. 118-119


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/21/08 02:38 PM)

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