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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8516263 -

Let's all be nice, please (myself included).


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Seuss]
    #8516551 -

My point proven exactly thanks.  The quote in my sig is from Jules Verne have you heard of em?  I mean really do I even have to defend that lmao!!!  Maybe you should try contacting Garrett Moddel. I'm sure he would be happy to discuss the commercial side of things with you in detail.  If you would like I can even call him myself if your not grown up enough yet.  Oh and maybe just maybe 3 professors with Phd's that are on my side of logical explanation are right and you could all be wrong. I'm off to go sublimate some tungsten with my water torch get back to me in 10,000 years when you guys figure out how to do it too.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (06/12/08 06:09 PM)

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #8516619 -

buddhahoodlum said:
My point proven exactly thanks.  The quote in my sig is from Jules Verne have you heard of em?  I mean really do I even have to defend that lmao!!!  Maybe you should try contacting Garrett Moddel. I'm sure he would be happy to discuss the commercial side of things with you in detail.  If you would like I can even call him myself if your not grown up enough yet.  Oh and maybe just maybe 3 professors with Phd's that are on my side of logical explanation are right and you could all be wrong. I'm off to go sublimate some tungsten with my water torch get back to me in 10,000 years when you guys figure out how to do it too.



I am not saying that you are right or wrong....    :smirk:
I commented above that you were disrespectful in your tact, and that opinion has not changed....

Simple dates would be sufficient for the following questions....
When is it planned that a working model be made and tested....?
And when will they be ready for purchase....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #8517531 -

Jules Verne was a science fiction author, not a scientist. What did he know about water-powered cars?
Quote:
I'm off to go sublimate some tungsten with my water torch



I would really, really like to see you do that.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: zouden]
    #8517577 -

Yeah, L Ron Hubbard was a Sci-fi writer, but teh Xenuz is real!!!111! [/SARS chasm]

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: zouden]
    #8518522 -

zouden said:
Jules Verne was a science fiction author, not a scientist. What did he know about water-powered cars?
Quote:
I'm off to go sublimate some tungsten with my water torch



I would really, really like to see you do that.



Sublimate... oxidize... it is all the same, more or less.  (Pretending to "sublimate tungsten" seems to be a big hit with the browns gas crowd.  For those that don't know, tungsten oxidizes easily when heated, and tungsten oxide evaporates at a lower temperature than tungsten, so when you heat tungsten in an oxygen rich environment such as air, it appears to sublime as it oxidizes and the oxide evaporates away.  Same thing can happen with aluminum.  Watch an aluminum can burn in a camp fire for an easy demonstration.)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Seuss]
    #8520510 -

Quote:
I'm off to go sublimate some tungsten with my water torch




See who cares if the torch burns hot?  I really don't see the relevance at all to using it to power a car or anything else.  The torch surely isn't some marvelously efficient device if its producing its own fuel and oxidant.

And yeah, considering tungsten has a melting point listed I doubt you're having much success w/ your sublimation.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: johnm214]
    #8521507 -

Hey Seuss, that's quite interesting. Does that mean that the only way to melt tungsten is under anoxia?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: zouden]
    #8522433 -

> Does that mean that the only way to melt tungsten is under anoxia?

Nope, you can melt it in a furnace.  However, you will lose some as the top layer oxidizes away.  (thus usually done under inert gas.) With a torch, the heated area is so small that the oxygen in the atmosphere is enough to oxidize it as it melts.  This is also why the common light-bulb burns out if the glass bulb breaks... as soon as oxygen from the air hits the hot tungsten filament, the tungsten oxidizes, the oxide evaporates, and the filament breaks.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Seuss]
    #8522453 -

Neat. Thanks for explaining that! You just earned some more mushrooms (not that you need them lol).


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: zouden]
    #8522949 -

I enjoyed and benefited from that explanation as well.

Thanks.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8523053 -

well, i have been reading this thread for quite some time now,
seems that these patents for ZPE do seem to be a fraud.

as for melting tungsten, i use some tungsten welding rods in my glass blowing setup, on a propane oxygen torch. i have on occasion gotten them red smoking hot, but never managed to melt one.


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: ZippoZ]
    #8528964 -

First of all Seuss yes it completely sumblimates the tungsten not just the tungsten oxide which if you happen to look at its wikipedia definition.  It clearly states that when exposed to hydrogen gas the tungsten oxide reduces back to the pure metal which would happen very quickly with a torch I can assure you.  So sorry another one of your myth's debunked.

Capatalistc Nomad I suggest you start from here before you start making assumptions http://ece.colorado.edu/~moddel/QEL/ZPE.html

http://www.manyone.net/about/management/bernard-haisch.html


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (06/16/08 05:00 AM)

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #8529052 -

buddhahoodlum said:
Capatalistc Nomad I suggest you start from here before you start making assumptions http://ece.colorado.edu/~moddel/QEL/ZPE.html




Hold on, that's just Moddel's website which is completely devoid of any useful information. And if he's a fraud (which Nomad and the rest of us strongly suspect) then why would we trust his website?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: ZippoZ]
    #8529056 -

> i have on occasion gotten them red smoking hot, but never managed to melt one.

Tungsten has the second highest melting point of any metal.  The smoke you see are actually the tungsten oxides burning off the hot tungsten rod.  If you let it go long enough, eventually the tungsten rod would completely burn away.

> seems that these patents for ZPE do seem to be a fraud.

I could argue it both ways.  Pretty much anything can be patented.  I could patent a 'hoop of air' to keep people dry during rainstorms.  Just because I get a patent doesn't mean that my 'hoop of air' works.  (And yes, USPTO would issue a patent for it assuming that nobody else has already applied for one.)

The real question is why did they patent this stuff.  On one hand, they might be trying to protect their research should it turn out to actually work someday.  On the other hand, they might be trying to make it sound like they have something to entice investors.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: zouden]
    #8529088 -

> And if he's a fraud (which Nomad and the rest of us strongly suspect) then why would we trust his website?

http://www.paranormalresearchforum.com/speakers.htm:
Quote:
Prof. Garret Moddel "The Psychic Edges of Science"

Professor Garret Moddel has approached his strong sense of curiosity of psychic phenomena through the critical analysis one would expect from an engineering professor with a physics background. As professor in the Electrical and Computer Engineering Dept. at the University of Colorado, Boulder Prof. Moddel conducts research on psi* phenomena at the PsiPhen Laboratory in conjunction with Naropa University. Last year’s and next year’s “Edges of Science” courses also conduce to research on telepathic, telekinetic, psychokinetic, precognitive and other paranormal matters. Prof. Moddel is thoroughly involved with new exotic technologies such as ultra-high speed metal-insulator devices, and zero-point energy extraction being investigated in his Quantum Engineering Laboratory. Nov. 21, 2007



http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3797/is_200603/ai_n17172588:
Quote:
Many scientific breakthroughs came from scholars willing to take risks, says Garret Moddel, an electrical engineering professor at the University of Colorado who joined the SSE about five years ago. "There's really a need to venture out into uncharted territory."

Moddel, who has degrees from Stanford and Harvard, says he decided to venture into terra incognita and perform research on paranormal phenomena-precognition, telekinesis, clairvoyance-after reading some of the literature and finding it convincing. He's published a paper that concludes that such phenomena may be consistent with the second law of thermodynamics.



http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2007/02/23/news/17454.shtml
Quote:
Moddel will continue testing the effect of physical variables such as temperature and sound on the statistical anomalies identified during PEAR's research, in addition to the natural causes of these phenomena. He began this line of research as a side project after overcoming initial doubts five years ago, he said.

"I was the biggest skeptic to begin with," Moddel said. "I realized that there was a conflict between my own experiences and [the PEAR study's] logic, and that I must choose logic, as my brain could easily be fooling itself."

A former PEAR researcher, John Valentino, founded the company Psyleron in 2005 to help feature the lab's research by making relevant products such as random event generators and informational media available to the public and other researchers.

"They've got some really good empirical data, but it's considered by our social norms to be a taboo topic," Valentino said. "I hope in the future that people will be able to do their own experiments and make their own decisions."

Critics of the PEAR lab's research abound, however. At the forefront of those within the scientific community is Robert Park, a physics professor at the University of Maryland and member of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry. He wrote "Voodoo Science: The Road from Foolishness to Fraud" and has studied the credibility of a variety of "questionable" studies over the past 25 years.

"Work in [PEAR's] area has been going on in a scientific fashion for as long as 2,000 years, but has not convinced anybody but its true believers," Park said. "I followed the [PEAR] laboratory over the years, and as the scientific community goes it was an embarrassment, but there was no outcry against it."



I don't think he is a fraud... but he is doing research in areas that touch on meta-physical, which tend to discredit him (unfortunately, as the judgment is without cause).  Even worse, people that don't have training in science tend to jump on anything he does as proof of whatever their pet beliefs are.  They also tend to make claims in his name, which again discredit him.  For now, I will assume he is ethical, but playing with fire (with respect to his credentials).  If he starts to pump out books, then my opinion of him not being a fraud will quickly change.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Seuss]
    #8529090 -

Quote:
I could patent a 'hoop of air' to keep people dry during rainstorms.



Sir, I would like to purchase the rights to your invention


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: zouden]
    #8529772 -

> Neat. Thanks for explaining that!

A little bit more for a complete picture... A lightbulb contains a partial vacuum and sometimes, an inert gas, to prevent oxidation of the tungsten filament.  However, sometimes lightbulbs still burn out.  In the reduced pressure environment, when heated, the tungsten will sublimate, skipping the liquid phase and 'out gas' from the filament.  Over time, the filament becomes thinner and thinner until it eventually breaks.

Halogen light bulbs are neat because they overcome this effect.  The gases in a  halogen bulb continually redeposit any tungsten back onto the filament (while the bulb is hot).  Because of this, the bulbs can be run much hotter.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: Seuss]
    #8530431 -

I think halogen bulbs are also made of quartz rather than glass so it can withstand the higher temperature, right? But it means you can't touch the bulb with your skin.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Zero Point Energy Extraction Has Arrived [Re: zouden]
    #8531306 -

zouden said:
I think halogen bulbs are also made of quartz rather than glass so it can withstand the higher temperature, right? But it means you can't touch the bulb with your skin.



The main ingredient of glass is SiO2 - with some other oxides and/or carbonates added depending upon the application....

Quartz is SiO2....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   North Spore Cultivation Supplies


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