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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: old mushmellow]
    #8510372 -

That's a huge margin.  I guess old hydraulic jaws isn't gonna be winning this year, at least not in the heart of the shroomery. :smile:


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OP is now RP!  Read about it here!


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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: Geomancer]
    #8510374 -

Geomancer said:
zouden said:
No, he still wouldn't. There's no way Ron Paul could get close 50% of the vote in a general election.


I said he'd have a fighting chance, meaning it'd probably be close.  How are you so positive it wouldn't be if people just voted for who they thought was most qualified instead of just voting along party lines?  In that scenario, he wouldn't need anywhere near 50% of the votes, there are two other main candidates as well as other independent parties to take into account.


Yes, you're right, he wouldn't need 50% in that case, just more than the next guy. I still doubt he'd win, but that's beside the point, your hypothetical scenario of everyone voting for who they think is more qualified is exactly what we have now. The problem is, voters only get one choice. They don't want to waste their vote, so they choose the candidate most likely to win that still represents their views to some extent.

Let's say you really like Ron Paul, you think McCain is okay, and you really hate Obama. And then let's say for some reason you can see the current tally of votes before you cast your vote.

Obama 310 votes
McCain 311 votes
Paul 70 votes

Who do you vote for?

Now what if you're one of the last guys to vote, but the guy behind you is wearing an Obama shirt? Now who do you vote for?


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: Maverick]
    #8510375 -

It's a kid thang!

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: zouden]
    #8510418 -

zouden said:
The problem is, voters only get one choice. They don't want to waste their vote, so they choose the candidate most likely to win that still represents their views to some extent.


See, you are proving my point though, that people have this idea that has been pounded into their head of their vote being a "wasted vote" if they don't vote for one of the main two parties who are most likely to win, which only remains true because they all continue to think this and thus vote for one of the main two candidates even though, in many cases, it is not the person that they would like to see in office.  I am saying that if people realized that if everyone discarded that notion and just voted for who they thought would make the best president, regardless of if they were one of the main two or not, it may turn out very differently and surprise a lot of people.

Edited by Geomancer (06/11/08 08:15 AM)

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: Geomancer]
    #8510458 -

Yes, I agree with you. But can you see my explanation for why that attitude persists? Because in the scenario I presented, voting for Paul is a wasted vote. You could have used that vote to put McCain over the line, or Obama for that matter.

The electoral system needs an overhaul, allowing people to vote for multiple candidates. Consider these two methods. If you can vote for McCain and Paul, people wouldn't consider a vote for Paul to be wasted. And if a lot of people also vote for Obama and Paul, then Ron Paul would do quite well, wouldn't he?
Plurality system
You may choose only one
Approval system
You may choose 2


Votes accepted from 06/11/08 08:15 AM until the end of time

View the results of this poll | Filter by response



--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: zouden]
    #8510462 -

Ronald macdonald would make a better president


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:lovemeds:

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: Gavn]
    #8510466 -

:mikemcdonald: this one?


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: zouden]
    #8510507 -

Yes, I see your explaination of why the attitude persists and agree.  People just need to realize that it is only a strict two party system because they have turned it into that by their own thinking that any other vote is a wasted vote.  I know it won't happen, but if everyone simultaneously realized this and just voted for who they truly want in office, then we would start to see candidates like Ron Paul having a sporting chance, and perhaps surprising us and taking the election.

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: Geomancer]
    #8510514 -

At BEST I see Ron Paul taking 15% of the vote, even if everyone who liked him voted for him with no regards for how that effects the outcome between the other two candidates.


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Discuss Politics

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: Ferris]
    #8510544 -

Briefly counting through the thread of the people who posted a response stating who they are voting for I counted 7 for Obama, 7 for Paul and 2 for McCain.  Definitely not the best stats to judge the population as a whole, but in this thread Paul isn't doing so bad.

I counted those who clearly stated a candidate, I even assumed that the nodding smily and "yes I can" responses were votes for Obama.  There were a couple vague responses that didn't really say one way or another so I didn't count those.

Edited by Geomancer (06/11/08 09:02 AM)

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: Geomancer]
    #8510554 -

Taking into account the facts that a Ron Paul supporter can always be counted on to pipe up, and that if you compare poll results and add those 7 to them, you get 7 out of 75, which comes to about 10.7 percent.  Of course we're a tad skewed since 95% of the Shroomery are social liberals.

Of course you can add a few votes to that in case their was a Ron Paul supporter so disgusted that he decided not to protest the poll, it still comes to right around my 15% estimate.

As much as I like freedom of expression, oh man, if a loud minority always got their way, imagine all the wack job ideas that would be implemented.


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Discuss Politics

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: Ferris]
    #8510560 -

But Paul wasn't one of the choices that could be voted for in the original poll, only Obama & McCain, so it is skewed.

You'd have to start another thread with all three to get a more accurate representation.

(and I can't even see the original poll results, since to view them I'd have to vote for either McCain or Obama, skewing it even more)

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: Geomancer]
    #8510735 -

Ron Paul isn't even a good candidate.  He has lots of great ideas and he speaks his mind, but unfortunately he's uneducated on geopolitics and all around not fit for the office.  I don't feel like digging anything up cause I'm lazy, but it's true.

Obama's our best bet by far, if we want any sort of change from the past 8 years.  No, he's not gonna turn the U.S. into a utopia but I'd like to think that his pragmatic abilities would far surpass those of Bush (who McCain still endorses for those of you voting for him).


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: wickedsick]
    #8510812 -

weak poll
how about my option

im a felon and the government wont let me vote

thanks for including me in this poll


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blankk said to fee:
btw you're a total fucking psychedelic pimp
Turtletotem said:
I want to become a sun worshipper, so next time an atheist smugly asks me where god is, I can point smugly at the sun and laugh my ass off.

Then I drive away in my solar powered piece of shit car, cool stuff man.

And then I go kill a bitch because the flaming orb in the sky told me to do so, and I don't know, oppress a few minorities here and there in the name of nuclear fusion?

Religion is fun.

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: fee]
    #8510837 -

get behind the women's suffrage parade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: mindfudged1134]
    #8510844 -

mindfudged1134 said:
yeah you definitely left out the third choice "FTW i'm not voting"


my thoughts exactly, as i never have and never will vote. It seems quite worthless to me.

i know someone will respond to this saying "your vote could be the deciding blow in this battle" my response would be...i could give a fuck:crankey::rofl:


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"It is the prayer of my innermost being to realize my supreme identity in the liberated play of consciousness, the Vast Expanse. Now is the moment, Here is the place of Liberation. " -alex grey

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: Geomancer]
    #8511809 -

Geomancer said:
People just need to realize that it is only a strict two party system because they have turned it into that by their own thinking that any other vote is a wasted vote.  I know it won't happen,


So you understand that players in a game make their choices taking into account their predictions of the choices others' will make, and because of this fact and the rules of the game (if the game is the US general election) players don't always choose for their favorite outcome but instead choose against their least favorite outcome.

Quote:
Geomancer said: but if everyone simultaneously realized this and just voted for who they truly want in office, then we would start to see candidates like Ron Paul having a sporting chance, and perhaps surprising us and taking the election.


This outcome has nil probability.  What we need is to do is actually change the rules of the game to make the third-party outcome viable.

Possible new rules that have been explained to me as a type of "third-party runoff" system:  Give voters "positive" and "negative" votes, eliminate  candidate with the highest number of negatives, and elect remaining candidtate with highest number of positives.

There are other ideas out there for different rules that creative and good-willed third-party candidates and supporters have thought of over the years.  With the unnecessary complexity of the electoral college and the fair level of dissatisfaction with only D and R choices, I for one am in favor of some radical new rules.


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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: moeshroom]
    #8511909 -

Duverger's law says that if you have a first-past-the-post method (like the US) you will always have a two party system, and voting for a third party is a wasted vote.

Much of the developed world has a more advanced system than FPTP like the US or UK. Australia has instant-runoff, which works quite well (though it still has a two-party system) while New Zealand and Germany have an extremely advanced multiple-party-preferential method. As a result Germany has a 6-party system.
Since America was the country that started the big democratic experiment, it really should lead the world in election methods too.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: wickedsick]
    #8511930 -

if obama is president then if he is shot, hilary clinton will become president?


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:prawn::baggy::zilla:
Please help support cover-upz blog
http://cover-upz.blogspot.com/
Please PM me if you can help build cover upz blog.

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Re: Who are you going to vote for? POLL [Re: LosAngelesGraff]
    #8511939 -

I may vote.

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