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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look!
    #8042702 - 02/19/08 12:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hillary and McCain such ass too. I'm posting this stuff to help put who the man/politician Obama really is into perspective for some people. He is way to over glorified here for his rhetoric and ooooooooohhhhh ahhhhhhhhh charisma.  Scary to think we are going to maybe give nukes to a guy who so casually says, " I fumbled and pressed the wrong button," as much as he has.

4 years of the following shit? :crazy:


Obama said he goofed on votes angered fellow Democrats in the Senate when he voted to strip millions of dollars from a child welfare office on Chicago's West Side. But Obama had a ready explanation: He goofed!

Also announced he had fumbled an election-reform vote the day before, on a measure that passed 51 to 6.

The next day, he acknowledged voting "present" on a key telecommunications vote.

He stood on March 11, 1999, to take back his vote against legislation to end good-behavior credits for certain felons in county jails. "I pressed the wrong button on that," he said.

Obama was the lone dissenter on Feb. 24, 2000, against 57 yeas for a ban on human cloning. "I pressed the wrong button by accident," he said.

Two of Obama's bumbles came on more-sensitive topics, he backed legislation to permit riverboat casinos to operate even when the boats were dockside.

The measure, pushed by the gambling industry and fought by church groups whose support Obama was seeking, passed with two "yeas" to spare -- including Obama's. Moments after its passage he rose to say, explaining that he had mistakenly voted for it.

Obama would later develop a reputation as a critic of the gambling industry, and he voted against a similar measure two years later. But he was clearly confused about how to handle the issue at the time of his first vote, telling a church group that he was "undecided" about whether he backed an expansion of riverboat gambling. And, months earlier, he had voted in favor of a version of the bill.

Obama's vote sparked a confrontation after he joined Republicans to block Democrats trying to override a veto by GOP Gov. George Ryan of a $2-million allotment for the west Chicago child welfare office. being responsible," said Sen. Rickey Hendon, accusing Obama of voting to close the child welfare office.Obama replied "I understand Sen. Hendon's anger, I was not aware that I had voted no on that piece of legislation.


Barack Obama and his fellow state senators considered more than 175 pieces of legislation on a frenetic day in March. Of those measures, Obama voted "present" 31 times! did not show up to vote in the senate often in his short time there, missed 130 votes! will not answer any reporter on how we would voted at the time.

His record after fact shows he supports the war, voted twice in 2006 against bringing America's troops back home. He votes for war appropriations giving our money to Halliburton and Blackwater.

His latest bit of posturing S 433 allows the Bush Administration to suspend any troop withdrawal!!!!Which if not suspended, still keeps the troops in Iraq for a long time to come?

Obama when faced with tough choices always caved in to pressure from the Bush administration or corporate lobbyists.

Such as Obama voted for Bush's energy bill, sending more than $13 billion in subsidies and tax breaks to oil, coal, and nuclear companies.

Obama voted with Republicans to allow credit card companies to raise interest rates over 30 percent, increasing hardship for families.

Obama voted for one of Bush's top priorities - expanding Nafta to South America - even as President Bush obstructed all the top Democratic priorities.

Obama voted with Bush to make it harder for ordinary people to hold big corporations accountable when they do things like sell toxic toys, poisonous pet food, or just plain rip you off.

Obama was the Senate's biggest Democratic advocate of subsidies for liquid coal, even though liquid coal produces twice the global warming pollution of the crude oil it's meant to replace (Obama "backed off" this position after being pummeled by environmentalists for several months, but still voted for increased subsidies, albeit with conditions)Obama, a Hamiltonian believer in free trade and supporters of globalization has lent his support to the "Hamilton Project formed by corporate-neoliberal Citigroup chair Robert Rubin and other 'Wall Street Democrats' to counter populist rebellion against corporate tendencies within the Democratic Party.

Obama provided assistance to pro-war candidates (such as Joe Lieberman).

Obama voted for "business-friendly 'tort reform' bill that rolls back working peoples' ability to obtain reasonable redress and compensation...from corporations!!!


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8042729 - 02/19/08 12:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Source?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8042812 - 02/19/08 01:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Obama said:

“We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. (Cheers, applause.) We are the change that we seek.”

"Imagine a future with Barack Obama.”

“We can remake this world as it should be."

“We are the hope of the future.”






OH my god pass me the Kool-Aid i will drink it!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8042842 - 02/19/08 01:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Obama said:

“We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. (Cheers, applause.) We are the change that we seek.”

"Imagine a future with Barack Obama.”

“We can remake this world as it should be."

“We are the hope of the future.”




How dare a candidate speak in terms of hope for the future! Any politician with brains at all should be speaking pessimistically about the past, and how its a damn shame that McCarthy ended up where he did and the commies got their rock n roll music on the airways, and holy shit look at all these darkies running around free starting race riots. We need a politician to move us backwards, not forwards!


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: zorbman]
    #8042926 - 02/19/08 01:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Source?




Senatorial Voting Records are public information.

I'll throw you a bone on his "oopsies" to get you started on what should be your own further research and investigation if you really care to confirm his voting record for yourself. As far as I am concerned, I just did.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamavotes24jan24,0,713086.story

Feel free to debunk anything I posted if you believe something I posted was in error that needs to be cleared up. Fine by me. I'd welcome it.

Or, you can close your eyes and drink the kool aid. It does taste and feel good. Many people want that as gluke proved to us. They want a feel good message, not the truth.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: gluke bastid]
    #8042932 - 02/19/08 01:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:

How dare a candidate speak in terms of hope for the future!





"Hope, my friends, is a powerful thing," "I can attest to that better than many, for I have seen men's hopes tested in hard and cruel ways that few will ever experience."
"To encourage a country with only rhetoric rather than sound and proven ideas that trust in the strength and courage of free people
is not a promise of hope," "It is a platitude."


John McCain


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Edited by lonestar2004 (02/19/08 01:51 PM)


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8042994 - 02/19/08 02:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Senatorial Voting Records are public information.




The one making the claim has the responsibility for providing the proof. I am not doubting you- just saying that more documentation would be nice for those who do.

From the article you cited: "During his eight years in state office, Obama cast more than 4,000 votes. Of those, according to transcripts of the proceedings in Springfield, he hit the wrong button at least six times."

Let's see.. Six times out of 4,000 votes means he hit the wrong button .0015 % of the time. Put another way, he hit the correct button 99.9 % of the time.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: zorbman]
    #8043067 - 02/19/08 02:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

According to the article there are longer term Senators who have said they never hit the wrong button.

On their desk they have 3 buttons. One for yes, one for no and one for present.

I expect a Senator to know where he stands on the issues and to know how to identify the yes button from the No Button consistently and to take his job of voting for his constituents seriously. No excuses fly with me. I see that as incompetence, and or his excuses as possible attempts to have it both ways. I think it's just slop personally and though it may carry the charm of a careless little boy that leaves his socks on the floor, careless incompetence when dealing with Bills isn't something I find charming in a potential President myself.

Now you know and if it flys okay with you, then it does.

There are votes he has made that I think may come as a surprise to some.

For example, someone in another post said that Obama said he wasn't for Nafta, yet Obama voted to fund the super highway.

I think people should know the actions behind the words. If they are still okay with it then, they are. Others may think twice before believing everything that comes out of Obamas mouth and do some research instead.

It's not that I have a preference to McCain or Hillary because I think they are all horrible choices. Since we are faced with one of the 3, best we get to know all of them better to keep informed.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8043171 - 02/19/08 02:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

there are longer term Senators who have said they never hit the wrong button.

Senators say a lot of things. It would be helpful to know what the average percentage actually is for ALL Illinois state senators and where Obama ranks. That is the thing about the article. It makes no comparison, it just cites his miscues without placing them in perspective.

Personally, I think hitting the correct button 3,994 times out of 4,000 times or 99.99% of the time is excellent for a senator or even a contestant on Jeopardy. It seems quite a stretch to call that "incompetence".

Also your list cited Obama as selecting "present" on one vote as if that were not commonplace. It is done all the time. Facts in isolation are not particularly helpful.

Perspective is a good thing.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Edited by zorbman (02/19/08 02:57 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: zorbman]
    #8043673 - 02/19/08 05:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If perspective pulled back is what you want, you have to take into consideration how many missed votes he has and that it seems he has voted Present at least 100 times, not once.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/02/obama.missed.votes/index.html

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/votes/missed/


http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/criticism_of_obama_present_vot.html

Your stats change.


Is asking for someone to know the green button from the red button asking to much?

I'm reading up more on what goes on in the house and senate and the flippant carelessness about the jobs they are there to do is very disturbing.

"Oh come on, switch that red light to a green one for the team"

"red, green, red green, shit one minute left to make up my mind before they close the vote and I don't know where I stand"

"Well, that feller over thar is perty smart. I'll vote whatever he voted"


The above is common practice in the house and senate.:crazy:

I want my money back on the salary my states congressmen and Senators make.

These people have cush jobs. They don't have to show up when they don't want to, don't have to know what they are doing when they do, and don't have to do the job they were elected to "vote their talk"


Anyway, to be fair, McCain and Hillary missed even more votes then Obama. I brought those links up to give you a bigger perspective and show that your percentages are off.

Some people here speak a little to highly and confidently about a guy who at times, with two minutes to choose and change, can't tell the difference between the red button and the green button or the red light and green light flashing from his desk.

I couldn't find one instance where RP meant to vote a different way and hit the wrong button. He takes his job seriously though.

Yes, I learned others Senators like Obama have difficulty with this simple process however.

Obama is not the guy that gives me hope for competent change in government.

I'm just trying to understand why some people give more weight to the hype and talk, then to reality and his past voting record. Talk is cheap!

I don't know who the lesser evil of the 3 is either. Even if I figured that out, they still won't be getting my vote this Nov.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8043810 - 02/19/08 05:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Obama may or may not make the best President but not for these reasons. This is awfully thin gruel. Where do people come up with this stuff?

First we had Pledge-Gate then Flag-Gate and now Button-Gate!

It's a new scandal every week with Obama!!

Come on. Let's get serious here and drop the trivial stuff.

An accuracy level of 99.99% is fantastic no matter how you try to spin it. If one is looking for perfection they will never be satisfied.

Who honestly cares if he made a mistake one hundredth of one percent of the time?

As far as Paul's proficiency with the button, that's great. Maybe he should have promoted that fact in his campaign literature. That would certainly have won him the "button-proficiency" voting bloc.

Who votes based on freakin' buttons??

Quote:

Scary to think we are going to maybe give nukes to a guy who so casually says, " I fumbled and pressed the wrong button," as much as he has.




Do you honestly believe the President has a little red nuke button with a flip cover on it on his bedstand like on 'Deal Or No Deal'?

As for the missing votes that is not at all uncommon for someone in his position. He's running for President for Christ's sake- ya think he might have been a little busy lately?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: zorbman]
    #8043865 - 02/19/08 06:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The " I pressed the wrong button" excuse over and over again is just sadly funny and yes, the thin gruel and what you chose to address from all of the information posted.

Lets get to the thicker meat, the stuff that if you presented this without saying who voted this way, to a typical Obama supporter, they would say, "That is certainly not from Obamas record." My point in posting this is to shed more light on some possible misconceptions people have about where Obama stands when it comes time to walk his talk. if every Obama supporter at the shroomery is aware of all of this and fine with it then, so be it.-

His record after fact shows he supports the war, voted twice in 2006 against bringing America's troops back home. He votes for war appropriations giving our money to Halliburton and Blackwater.

His latest bit of posturing S 433 allows the Bush Administration to suspend any troop withdrawal!!!!Which if not suspended, still keeps the troops in Iraq for a long time to come?

Such as Obama voted for Bush's energy bill, sending more than $13 billion in subsidies and tax breaks to oil, coal, and nuclear companies.

Obama voted with Republicans to allow credit card companies to raise interest rates over 30 percent, increasing hardship for families.

Obama voted for one of Bush's top priorities - expanding Nafta to South America - even as President Bush obstructed all the top Democratic priorities.

Obama voted with Bush to make it harder for ordinary people to hold big corporations accountable when they do things like sell toxic toys, poisonous pet food, or just plain rip you off.

Obama was the Senate's biggest Democratic advocate of subsidies for liquid coal, even though liquid coal produces twice the global warming pollution of the crude oil it's meant to replace (Obama "backed off" this position after being pummeled by environmentalists for several months, but still voted for increased subsidies, albeit with conditions)Obama, a Hamiltonian believer in free trade and supporters of globalization has lent his support to the "Hamilton Project formed by corporate-neoliberal Citigroup chair Robert Rubin and other 'Wall Street Democrats' to counter populist rebellion against corporate tendencies within the Democratic Party.


Obama voted for "business-friendly 'tort reform' bill that rolls back working peoples' ability to obtain reasonable redress and compensation...from corporations!!!


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Behind the Obama Rhetoric and Hype-a closer look! [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8043912 - 02/19/08 06:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

U-Go Woman!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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