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Ben Stein movie a must see
    #7838382 -

The famous Ben Stein is coming out with his movie entitled "Expelled" next month on the topic of evolution and intelligent design. Visit http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

I agree with Ben Stein's views on the problems with evolution. In college I held discussion groups on intelligent design. Even at a private university renown for its academics I found several professors in the science department that held intelligent design views or supported the discussion of intelligent design but knew they could not speak out or they would lose their job. My ornithology professor told me he witnessed the finest candidate for a position in the biology department but her husband slipped up and mentioned to the department that she had personal views on intelligent design and they dropped her like a rock.

My zoology professor, who also owns his own biological consulting business and is known as the BEST botanist in the state of ohio told me that he agreed with intelligent design but could not speak about it. He would however throw out clues during class on the problems with evolution. Also, he told me of a very interesting story. In 1968 he was at a scientific discovery in Glenn Rose, Texas in the Paluxy River. That year the river had flooded and washed out the bottom layer of mud and rock to expose limestone with many footprint paths of dinosaur prints walking directly beside human footprints. The foot paths were not hoaxes for the scientists at the scene had construction equipment dig into the bank of the river exposing even more footpaths. My professor said that the prints were DEFINITELY human prints next to dinosaur prints (i think hadosaurs if I remember...) in jurassic limestone. Even the type of dinosaur prints didn't match up to the jurassic period but were supposed to be triassic. He said that NOVA, the renown science organization, had cameras and a crew but refused to actually go into the river area and look at the tracks. Instead the NOVA rep told on camera that there is nothing here that discredits evolutionary history. The footpaths can still be seen today but the river continually wears the limestone away. So yes, man and dinosaur once lived together. Its a hard piece of evidence. The only reason you haven't heard about it is because of the evolutionary establishment's fear of questioning these problems and many more like them.


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"If you have not love you have nothing"


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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: AncientBeing]
    #7838418 -

if you remember back when Darwin was first coming up with his theory of evolution - one of his colleges, Alfred Russel Wallas, insisted that there had to have been a third factor involved in all of this (aside from random mutation and natural selection) which was an apitition towards an end state - a sort of underlying reason behind everything, or a divine plan even if you will

his theory was that random mutation/natural selection could very well have explained many of the simpler things in our world, but by no means was capable of explaining the sort of complexity that much of our world is composed of (like the metamorphosis of a caterpillar into a butterfly, for example)

but obviously that idea never really caught on at the time  :rolleyes:


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: Muppet]
    #7838600 -

the trailer looked good. It's just another dude speaking his mind, which I give him lots of credit for doing.


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"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"


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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: AncientBeing]
    #7838692 -

Intelligent design isn't very scientific, not to say it might not be the case, but its not like you can test it. Religious believes don't belong in the science classroom.


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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: fapjack]
    #7839008 -

evolution has not been proven either(and science is about FACTS)

I believe theres some type of evolution going on in this world even if its only present in human beings

you can't deny that we as human beings are not evolving(even if only from a technology standpoint) evolution is real but it also isn't the answer for life either(I've gone over my whole "0+0 always = 0" theory before here) which is just common sense imo

I FIRMLY believe in god...I feel his/her/it's presence in my life everyday and if you pay attention to your decisions and the direct consequences you will notice that there is something else around us at all times

if you come to god with sincere intentions looking for answers TRUELY wanting to do what is right and follow the path of light you will notice your answers starting to pop up in sometimes the most odd places

movies you watch, ppl you meet, often very ironic and karma like ime, oppurtunity's which open up when you choose the path you KNOW deep down you should take

even video games you play hold the answers in some cases

but you have to be open to the truth and capable of reading between the lines...god is everywhere always(we are a product of his/her/it's existence afterall)

I am a christian at this point in my life...quite firmly(these decisions I speak of led me to the christian church which taught of unity in christianity and that all this division over sometimes MINUTE details only causes the msg and truth to become diluted)

of course these are some of MY PERSONAL beliefs...I can't prove any of it...but I feel it in my heart and soul


thx for the movie recommendation btw Imma check it out

Edited by Iamthewalrus (01/06/08 12:07 PM)

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: AncientBeing]
    #7839075 -

Yes, evolution has been proven. However, the theory (NOT hypothesis) is always clarified with each further investigation into it. It occurs at the population level not in individual human beings so we would never be able to trace it without thousands of years of study thats why we use yeast and drosophila. Even Rana Pipiens studies show it. It's still being refined as we speak in labs all over the world. While Ben Stein is a smart man he is no scientist.

This is also not an attempt to discredit God. Evolution does not try to speculate on what caused life. It doesn't mean God can't exist or we are atheists, but ID is complete and utter drivel that is a way for crazy evangelicals to take control over public teachings.

The Paluxy River discoveries don't stand up scientifically and even staunch creationists don't support them FYI.

Edited by trepanib (01/06/08 12:23 PM)

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: Iamthewalrus]
    #7839076 -

At the heart of it, this becomes a question that is entirely subjective,and therefor extremely difficult for people to study or conclude precise answers on.

If you believe in intelligent design thats fine, but why does it have to be associated with a religious deity? When I think of it I don't think of "gods divine plan" or any of that nonsense.

I like to think of it more as part of an inherent flaw the universe has encoded into either our species or all things that allows it to destroy itself. Ie: The eventual death of stars, planet systems, human beings as a species and eventually our earth itself however its intended to happen.

Perhaps our universe just expands and collapses repeating the cycle forever, or maybe its all just part of something so big we couldn't possibly get a grasp or perspective on, like an ant in a park in a city.

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: AncientBeing]
    #7839084 -

quite the switch, we gone from god in school and no evolution to evolution in school with no god.

I believe in evolution and a god.


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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: AncientBeing]
    #7839093 -

I think atoms spin because they are dancing to the music created by electricity. Why not teach my theory in school? Just because a bunch of people believe in some batshit insane book written by a bunch of whackjobs over one thousand years ago, doesn't make it a valid theory.


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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: trepanib]
    #7839134 -

show me some of the proof(seriously I wanna see it if it exists)

like I said I believe in evolution...I just don't believe in the idea of evolution being the answer to existence itself

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: Iamthewalrus]
    #7839205 -

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0308_060308_evolution.html
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
^evolution written so you can understand it. Very basic. Go to your library pick up scientific american, science, nature, they always have articles on evolution plus it's free.

You also need to understand that nothing is 100% TRUTH/FACT that's impossible. This sums it up better
"Scientists come up with a theory, and then they test it in as many ways as they can, looking for evidence or information which will either prove the theory to be impossible, or maybe verify some of the theory's predictions, or change the theory a little. Most theories start out because someone has done a lot of experiments, or a lot of studies, to look at something, and then they make a general guess as to how that thing works. This is called a "theory" in
science. However, if we guess how things are based on what someone else tells us, or based on what we read, that is not a "theory" to a scientist but a "guess." After all of that, I guess you would like to hear some EVIDENCE supporting evolution. One piece of evidence is based on our DNA molecules.Every single cell in our bodies contains DNA, a special molecule which literally makes us what we are. Our DNA is almost EXACTLY the same as gorilla DNA, and is even closer to DNA obtained from fossils of ancient ancestors of human beings.

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: fapjack]
    #7839290 -

great trailer...and to whoever said "ben stein isn't a scientist"...ya thats why hes interviewing SCIENTISTS in his movie

from what I gather from the trailer hes seen evidence from these scientists of proof of ID and possibly some type of cover up so hes putting his beliefs out there WITH the scientists opinions to back those beliefs up

or perhaps hes trying to cash in on a very michael moore type idea for a documentary(doubtful but never know)

we are living in a very interesting time...I think most of us are gonna see some great(and terrifying) things in our time...you guys up for it? I know I am

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: trepanib]
    #7839317 -

our DNA being similar to gorilla DNA proves NOTHING

human beings are different from every other animal on this planet

I wonder if the 5th demension is good and evil which seems to only exist within human beings

EDIT: I'm reading the article now(seems to be a pretty good article thx) I don't really know why this has turned into a semi arguement since I actually believe in evolution/adaptation and have since the 9th grade

I just don't think its been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt(someone basically claimed it had) there is absolutely no evidence to disprove the existence of god(which is a THEORY) as well with much evidence throughout history

I've said it before and I'll say it again...the one constant between all religions and all human civilizations which have ever existed is spirituality itself...the belief in a higher power...its built into us

and the need to know more of what we are and where we came plays a role in our evolution as a species

Edited by Iamthewalrus (01/06/08 01:26 PM)

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: Iamthewalrus]
    #7839376 -

Good and evil? HAHAHA. There is no good and evil in man. We are just higher animals with an abstract concept. Our DNA being similar shows common ancestry.

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: Iamthewalrus]
    #7839389 -

Walrus, it's a hard concept to grasp because most people are unable to see it unless you work with model organisms. ID is just bad science and is POLITICAL thats why it was created.

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: trepanib]
    #7839400 -

I'm not even specifically talking about ID I don't know anything about it to be honest

all I'm really saying is that I believe in evolution and I believe in god and I don't think either rule the other out

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: Iamthewalrus]
    #7839447 -

Yeah, i said that in my first post. However, ID is just bad because evolution has support ID is just random BS that can't be proven.

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: trepanib]
    #7839639 -

trepanib said:
Yes, evolution has been proven. However, the theory (NOT hypothesis) is always clarified with each further investigation into it. It occurs at the population level not in individual human beings so we would never be able to trace it without thousands of years of study thats why we use yeast and drosophila. Even Rana Pipiens studies show it. It's still being refined as we speak in labs all over the world. While Ben Stein is a smart man he is no scientist.

This is also not an attempt to discredit God. Evolution does not try to speculate on what caused life. It doesn't mean God can't exist or we are atheists, but ID is complete and utter drivel that is a way for crazy evangelicals to take control over public teachings.

The Paluxy River discoveries don't stand up scientifically and even staunch creationists don't support them FYI.


.. what he said.

The only arguments against evolution are desperate scraps such as the one the OP posted. I don't understand the driving need to try and disprove such an elegant solution to how complexity emerged on our planet. Nowhere does it require any sort of divine intervention.

Evolution doesn't deny God. It just denies bullshit Adam and Eve religions.

I'd like to think evolution fine tuned the physical laws of our universe in some kind of crazy multiversal evolution of universes, but that at least *is* completely wild speculation.


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:duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead: :duckie: :chickenhead:

i'm a spy huntin rap dinosaur from the future

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: Iamthewalrus]
    #7840751 -

Quote:
Iamthewalrus said:if you come to god with sincere intentions looking for answers TRUELY wanting to do what is right and follow the path of light you will notice your answers starting to pop up in sometimes the most odd places

movies you watch, ppl you meet, often very ironic and karma like ime, oppurtunity's which open up when you choose the path you KNOW deep down you should take

even video games you play hold the answers in some cases


Just as I was reading the part about 'answers starting to pop up', my MSN 'popped up' saying that one of my friends came online. The thing is though, this friend is one of my best and we've been through and talk about a lot of spiritual and life related things. Hard to explain the significance of specifically that friend popping up, but it was enough to make me laugh. Then I read the part about the video game. Just yesterday I bought a used game at random (its turning out to be one of the best games I've ever played) and some of the plot line (characters and scenario) are seeming to really line up with things that I am thinking about these days. Again it might not seem all that strange, but on my side of the screen its really quite the coincidence.

And, on topic, if God did create the world, why can't we attribute the beauty and complexities of evolution to God?


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Edited by WScott (01/06/08 06:31 PM)

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Re: Ben Stein movie a must see [Re: WScott]
    #7841080 -

like I said - there's an underlying purpose to all things  :craven:


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:

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