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I don't think your boy did himself any good
    #7804875 -

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2007/12/27/ron.paul.bhutto.reax.cnn

Not real smart here. If he actually was a serious Presidential candidate it would probably be problematic to make such proclamations. Talk about Bush being belligerent? Sheesh.

I AM a fucking poet.


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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7804883 -

Oh my gosh! He stuck to his principles instead of saying what people wanted to hear! He's a fool!


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7804895 -

I thought you "didn't do videos"?

Or is that only my videos? :sad:

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: johnm214]
    #7804913 -

whyd they mute him at the end.

ron paul ftbhutto.

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: johnm214]
    #7804931 -

I couldn't find a transcript. It was also only 30 seconds long.

And Gastro.... He's not a fool because he stuck to his principles. He's a fool because of what his principles are. He's also a life failure on the pragmatism scale. As in not feasible. Or, maybe, completely unrealistic. Living in a fantasy land. Out to lunch. Looney tunes. Batshit crazy. Capisce?


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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7804964 -

What did he say that was so bad?

Anyways, it's absurd to say that he is a life failure, regardless of how you feel about his politics. He's done real well for himself in the private and public sector.

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7804991 -

The only reason you think it's not pragmatic is because you don't understand his position. He wants to change America and not have it participate on the global scale. You just want more of the same


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7805083 -

Redstorm:

He is a life failure on the pragmatism scale. Champion zero. I have shown that twice by posting his record. Zero bills passed and I guarantee none of his votes ever made a difference.

Gastro:

I don't think HE understands his position. He seems to be getting more and more caught up in the celebrity of it all. Bret Maverick and all.


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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7805292 -

zappaisgod said:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2007/12/27/ron.paul.bhutto.reax.cnn

Not real smart here. If he actually was a serious Presidential candidate it would probably be problematic to make such proclamations. Talk about Bush being belligerent? Sheesh.

I AM a fucking poet.


You are a failure. You want your government supporting chumps like Musharraf? Don't be surprised when it comes back to bite you on the ass.

You are deluded, being more concerned with candidates expressing all these meaningless emotions and appearances, and denying the hard facts.


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Edited by Minstrel (12/27/07 08:00 PM)

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Minstrel]
    #7805975 -

I was in suspense waiting for his interview on this subject, with MSNBC earlier today. Paul said EXACTLY, what I was hoping he would and then some!!!!( He covered what was in the CNN interview and much more that I thought was Great for him to say on television).

I think he helped himself a lot as I think fewer by the day are falling for this crap about the U.S. having to solve every countries problems for them at our outrageous expense we can't even afford, "scares' about "certain peoples" nukes, but not others, and feeling pressured into sticking with a pro war mongering President.

Quite frankly, I think most Americans just want to get back to baseball, apple pie, and bitching about their bosses. Most are worried about foreclosures, job security and crime in their neighborhoods long before they are a terrorist attack.

It's growing tiresome watching this election become more about geo-politics then issues on the domestic home front.

I think those with a globalist agenda have infiltrated more mediums then I even realized.

All the more I was amped to get 25 more Ron Paul signs out in my town earlier tonight.

I have no doubt that most all Paul supporters were impressed with his consistency on Foreign policy and continued lack of pandering when asked about Bhutto and what he would do. His honesty on the facts of the situation and rational "breath of fresh air" stance on what our position should be with Pakistan, probably turned on a lot more people who are fed up with the status quo.

Zappa, please just remember that this republican candidate you call nuts and out of touch, is looking like he will have the highest fund raising fourth quarter of them all. Money talks and America is saying Ron Paul with their cash!!

Paul is probably more in touch with Americans then you are right now.

Over all of the holiday festivities with family and friends this past week, I have heard nothing but positive comments about Paul from others paying attention to this race.

What's nuts is sending billions of dollars of financial aide to an unelected Military dictator, with 8% popularity, who has been harboring Bin Laden and who has nukes.

Our Foriegn policy is what is bat shit crazy!!!

From the time we didn't follow Al Queda into Pakistan, because we were playing footsie with Mushariff, and went in to steal Iraq's Oil instead, Paul has been asking why we have not been in Pakistan going after Al Queda there. Had he been the President, we wouldn't have spent a fortune creating the Al Queda breeding ground that we did in Iraq, and probably would've taken out the Al Queda groups that killed Bhutto, who would've been elected and turned things around for the better in Pakistan.

Paul just keeps scoring more points with me the more I hear him talk and watch the messes we have been creating abroad grow.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7806046 -

Quote:
He is a life failure on the pragmatism scale. Champion zero. I have shown that twice by posting his record. Zero bills passed and I guarantee none of his votes ever made a difference.


So what? Lincoln was a repeated failure on the way to becoming one of our greatest presidents. Revolutions seem like failures right up until the time they break through. Ron Paul represents a movement in its infancy more than an individual candidacy. Those who scoff should review their history books.

Do I think he can win? No. Do I think the movement he represents can win eventually? Absolutely.

As it must.

Time to get back to basics. Your neocon boys have left an awful mess behind their rumps.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (12/27/07 11:42 PM)

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7806681 -

Is there some trick to getting that video to play? Cuz if there is I'd sure like to know it.

Here's some commentary from someone who is no fan of Ron Paul, but I have no idea if he is referring here to that CNN video or to the far lengthier FOX video he links at the beginning of the post --

Quote:
The Only Man Who Can Save [strike]America[/strike] Pakistan
—Ace

Bryan's analysis is spot-on, http://hotair.com/archives/2007/12/27/video-ron-paul-reacts-to-bhuttos-death-by-playing-the-same-tired-blame-america-tune/ and here is another example of a childish mind reducing a complex situation to simplistic sound-bite sophistries his limited intellect can comprehend.

The little bitch whines in that effeminate voice of his that, basically, our foreign policy should consist of a Smile Being Our Umbrella and also of course resorts to the Blame America First critique of the crank left/crank right/Anarco-Socialist/Nazi Union.

I do enjoy how the childish leftists constantly make two contradictory complaints: 1) We should engage in more "diplomacy" with these often-unsavory regimes, "talk to them, reason with them," as Doktor Paul screeches like a girl here, and 2) we should not be supporting "military dictators."

Um, asshole? Isn't "supporting" a regime part of "diplomacy"? And which regimes precisely should we be talking with, reasoning with, if not the junta that actually, you know, runs the fucking country? Should we pretend that some group of university protester types is actually running Pakistan and just "talk with, reason with" them while treating the actual ruling claque as undiplomatically as possible, by shunning them?

They have no answers. None at all. They're like Elliot in True Romance screeching in the elevator when a gun is put to his head, "I want to be taken out of here, I don't want to be here anymore!" All they do is attempt to wish the world's problems away. Not confront the problem, not deal with the problem. But simply offer up some glib bumper-sticker Zen bullshit and pretend the problem doesn't exist.

Oh yeah -- and blame America, of course. They're not much for giving advice going forward, but damn, are they quick to glibly claim "It's all America's fault."

It's all they can do. It's not "idealism," it's dementia, and it's cowardice. The world is what it is, not what Herr Doktor Paul and Russ Feingold schoolgirlishly pine for it to be.


http://ace.mu.nu/archives/250436.php

It's worth going to the hotair.com link and reading the analysis there as well. While Ron Paul may have some good ideas on how the US can improve itself domestically as a country (sadly, 90% of those ideas cannot be enacted by the president, but instead depend on Congress) he has consistently shown himself to be almost completely clueless in the area of foreign affairs and even modern history.

Fortunately for Republicans he will not be the Republican candidate for president in 2008 -- no matter how much money he raises.



Phred


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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Phred]
    #7807134 -

Like I said,

He is doing better and the attacks are going to come on a lot harder.
a movement created by RP threatens a lot of people, as such, attacks on him should be expected to be fierce.

I'm tired of hearing the reason for not supporting Paul of, " The President can only do so much" as if it only applies to one candidate. The limited power a President has, applies to ALL candidates. The same can be said to supporters of any candidate.

It's the people who elect their congress and senate that are to put the pressure on them regarding how they vote in the House and Senate. We saw how effective that can be when they took action via phone calls and e-mails during the last Shamnisty Bill fiasco.

To the side of that, Paul is stirring the people up to take their power back again. Paul's supporters know that the power to effect change doesn't come from the President, as much as it comes from the people that elect their government leaders.

Even McCain supporters for shamnesty, have to sit back now and hear him say, " Okay Okay, the American people spoke. They want the borders tightened before we look for immigration reform. I heard them."

Congressmen and Senators need to be elected By The People and can be held accountable by the people who elected them. Unless anyone here wants to admit to voting fraud, the people ultimately still hold the power and the Amnesty fiasco and Paul have reminded the American People of that. They are waking from their slumber and this is scaring a lot of people. That's why the attacks against Paul are often vicious but more obvious and sadly, made up of nothing but backless name calling and straw men.

We are the masters of debate in here and we know what people do when they do not have a legitimate argument. They start name calling throwing out the ad hominem attacks, and pulling straw men from their ass.

I wish we could invite the man here who wrote that piece you quoted and have a debate with him where facts are all that mean anything. Ron Paul is a 71 year old, ten term elected Congressmen, Air Force veteran, accomplished OBGYN, happily married to the same woman for 50 years, Father of 5 and grandfather to 13, not a "school girl". Those are the facts. Clearly, the writer is already delusional and or willing to twist and distort the truth and lie, to negatively influence the reader on the subject. The sad part is that, if his first post was that quote, he would have to be given a warning off the bat for breaking froum debate rules.

Back to Paul's Foreign Policy. His response is to Paul's commentary on the Bhutto assination. Perhaps we should hear from Bhutto herself.

Parade Magazine will be publishing an interview with Benazir Buhtto on January 6th and this is the most interesting part:

What would you like to tell President Bush? I ask this riddle of a woman.

She would tell him, she replies, that propping up Musharraf's government, which is infested with radical Islamists, is only hastening disaster. "I would say, 'Your policy of supporting dictatorship is breaking up my country.' I now think al-Qaeda can be marching on Islamabad in two to four years."

The interview is here:

http://www.parade.com/benazir_bhutto_interview.html

Gee, she sounds just like......Ron Paul.

Here is another replay on a radio interview given by a Pakistani journalist-

Quote:
I listen to POTUS 08 channel 130 on XM satellite radio.

There was a journalist in Pakistan, he seemed like the expert on Pakistani politics, he seemed quite depressed, his name was William Whitter or something.

He was describing the situation, then took a step back and interjected his own opinion.

His opinion was PRETTY MUCH DEAD ON with Ron Paul's belief that overall, the US involvement in the middle east and Pakistan etc. end up causing more trouble and more US resentment.

He was speaking overall, that the US tries to MICRO MANAGE the politics over there and they get stuck in the middle and make it worse. They have good intentions but they micro manage the situation and it just gets worse.

He felt the Pakistanis and other countries where we try to prop up democracy, we end up alienating many more people, they end up disliking our intervention, and MANY of them end up feeling like Islam is under threat with the US being involved, even though that's not the case.

He stated this 2-3 times and said something like, But in Washington/America, they just don't get it!

He didn't exactly blame Bhutto's death on the US, but Bush's influence (micromanaging) to get democracy moving in Pakistan ending up hurting the cause more than helping (he didn't say blow back or anything but you get the idea).

It was the first time after Ron Paul I heard someone so CLEARLY say we keep F*ing things up, and we always seem to make it worse, and our interventionism is a problem.

He strongly criticized our foreign policy and he's supposed to be the expert journalist on location with a pulse of the people. I really wanted to get his full name so I could send him an email and turn him onto Ron Paul!!!

No one from POTUS said anything like, "Hey! That's what RP has been saying for months!" Nope it was just silent.

Instead they are turning this attack into scare tactic, "WE NEED TO ATTACK! THEY ARE COMING FOR US! TERROR ALERT! 9/11!!! 9/11!! GO! FIGHT!" I heard McCain and Hilary sending out the warning signals and drumming up the war battle cry.

Did anyone else hear that interview? It was sad the reporter was pretty depressed about the tragedy and pretty gloomy about the current state of affairs and bleak future, but I thought it was real important for PEOPLE TO HEAR! It's not just Ron Paul who's saying this, people over there, objectively looking at what we are doing, AGREE WITH Ron Paul!!


The only other thing I'll add at this point is an open invite for anyone to cite where Paul has been wrong on his knowledge of History, as that author in Phreds quote, says he is, yet does give one example for where he has been wrong.

Paul speaks about history a lot and I have not seen one word of his on it discredited yet, by anyone, including the American media that would love to catch him on something for blood sport.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7807229 -

Quote:
The only other thing I'll add at this point is an open invite for anyone to cite where Paul has been wrong on his knowledge of History, as that author in Phreds quote, says he is, yet doesn't give one example for where he has been wrong.

Paul speaks about history a lot and I have not seen one word of his on it discredited yet, by anyone, including the American media that would love to catch him on something for blood sport.



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"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7807464 -

jiggy writes:

Quote:
The only other thing I'll add at this point is an open invite for anyone to cite where Paul has been wrong on his knowledge of History...


There's a reason I suggested people check out the link at hotair.com as well as Ace's piece. I even provided the link. From hotair --

Quote:
But in Ron Paul’s world, all problems are the result of the US taking action. Any action. Anywhere. Against anyone, doing anything. In the case of Pakistan, he says we should cut off aid to our “puppet” in Pakistan and make sure not to march in there with troops. There is, of course, at most a neglible possibility that we’ll send troops into Pakistan to do anything beyond taking on al Qaeda or securing the nukes. India might, but even that’s highly unlikely. And never mind that Pakistan’s history with democracy is sketchy, to say the least. Should we not have attempted to work with Musharraf against al Qaeda, Patriot Paul? Paul also tosses out the canard that we supported Osama bin Laden. Someone really needs to disabuse him of that notion one of these days. Someone should bone him up on the history of al Qaeda as well. It didn’t form because we support Musharraf, as Paul seems to think.


I'd really like to see Dr Paul point out to the world at what point in history the US supported Osama bin Laden.

Jiggy goes on to write:

Quote:
I'm tired of hearing the reason for not supporting Paul of, " The President can only do so much" as if it only applies to one candidate.


Of course that caveat applies to all the candidates. The thing is, the rest of the candidates (with occasional exceptions) seem to understand the Constitution better on this point than Paul does. The Constitution limits the areas of responsibility of Congress and of the Executive, and unfortunately for Paul, the changes he is most vehement about wanting to make are not his to make, but Congress's. For someone who claims to be such a champion of the Constitution, he shows on a daily basis an astonishing ignorance of the separation of powers the Constitution lays out.

Quote:
It's the people who elect their congress and senate that are to put the pressure on them regarding how they vote in the House and Senate. We saw how effective that can be when they took action via phone calls and e-mails during the last Shamnisty Bill fiasco.


Exactly. That was something Bush favored, and he got hosed on it because Congress didn't come through. Same with Social Security reform. Paul can chant about all the changes he's going to make till he's blue in the face, but without Congress behind him, he can't make them.

Quote:
Clearly, the writer is already delusional and or willing to twist and distort the truth and lie, to negatively influence the reader on the subject. The sad part is that, if his first post was that quote, he would have to be given a warning off the bat for breaking froum debate rules.


The writer twisted no truths. He pointed out Paul's deficiencies in his understanding of international relations -- as if we needed him to do that; even a casual student of foreign affairs in the post-WWII area will have noted these deficiencies already.

Quote:
The sad part is that, if his first post was that quote, he would have to be given a warning off the bat for breaking froum debate rules.


Only if he had been responding to a post in this forum by Ron Paul. Why not invite Ron Paul to sign up as a Shroomery member, jiggy?

Quote:
Perhaps we should hear from Bhutto herself.


Bhutto was herself a politician, and as such was given to issuing self-serving statements. Her rule was as corrupt and feckless as pretty much any other Pakistani head of state's rule has been since that benighted country's inception. It can be argued that if restored to power she MAY have been marginally less objectionable than Musharraf, but it would take a skilled arguer indeed to pull that off.



Phred


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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Phred]
    #7807525 -

I dunno, Phred, I just clicked it again and it worked. Wait a little while and it automatically starts itself.

I can't believe that this idiot thinks we should or can ignore the whole rest of the world. I don't know why he thinks it isn't in the USA's interests for us to have a reasonably friendly government in charge in Pakistan that at least makes it difficult for the lunatics to use normal methods of interaction (banks, phones, internet, etc.). He's just fucking stupid. And oh yeah, for the last two fiscal years Pakistan got $785M and $707M. Afghanistan got more and have way fewer people. That doesn't include the cost of troops there. We don't have troops in Pakistan.
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?168195


We've been giving Pakistan aid for decades.
http://www.usaid.gov/pk/mission/background/index.htm
"almost $400 million a year in the early 1960s."
No matter who was in power.


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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Phred]
    #7807694 -

Paul is no more ignorant on world politics than GWB or Clinton were. Neither of them had any real experience with international relations.

Edited by Redstorm (12/28/07 04:36 PM)

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7807699 -

]


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http://www.theamericanright.com/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15838446
http://www.climatedepot.com




Edited by Luddite (12/28/07 03:37 PM)

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7807971 -

IHe said that he doesn't like foreign aid in the form of large cash payments
and meddlesome diplomacy.

When has he ever suggested that we ignore the rest of the world?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Phred]
    #7808260 -

"I'd really like to see Dr Paul point out to the world at what point in history the US supported Osama bin Laden. "

While the U.S. didn't hand him money to plan 9/11, he and his ilk were our allies when we fought the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.

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