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Offlinezappaisgod
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I don't think your boy did himself any good
    #7804875 - 12/27/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2007/12/27/ron.paul.bhutto.reax.cnn

Not real smart here. If he actually was a serious Presidential candidate it would probably be problematic to make such proclamations. Talk about Bush being belligerent? Sheesh.

I AM a fucking poet.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7804883 - 12/27/07 05:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Oh my gosh! He stuck to his principles instead of saying what people wanted to hear! He's a fool!


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7804895 - 12/27/07 05:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I thought you "didn't do videos"?

Or is that only my videos? :sad:


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: johnm214]
    #7804913 - 12/27/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

whyd they mute him at the end.

ron paul ftbhutto.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: johnm214]
    #7804931 - 12/27/07 06:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I couldn't find a transcript. It was also only 30 seconds long.

And Gastro.... He's not a fool because he stuck to his principles. He's a fool because of what his principles are. He's also a life failure on the pragmatism scale. As in not feasible. Or, maybe, completely unrealistic. Living in a fantasy land. Out to lunch. Looney tunes. Batshit crazy. Capisce?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7804964 - 12/27/07 06:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What did he say that was so bad?

Anyways, it's absurd to say that he is a life failure, regardless of how you feel about his politics. He's done real well for himself in the private and public sector.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7804991 - 12/27/07 06:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The only reason you think it's not pragmatic is because you don't understand his position. He wants to change America and not have it participate on the global scale. You just want more of the same


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7805083 - 12/27/07 06:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Redstorm:

He is a life failure on the pragmatism scale. Champion zero. I have shown that twice by posting his record. Zero bills passed and I guarantee none of his votes ever made a difference.

Gastro:

I don't think HE understands his position. He seems to be getting more and more caught up in the celebrity of it all. Bret Maverick and all.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7805292 - 12/27/07 07:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2007/12/27/ron.paul.bhutto.reax.cnn

Not real smart here. If he actually was a serious Presidential candidate it would probably be problematic to make such proclamations. Talk about Bush being belligerent? Sheesh.

I AM a fucking poet.




You are a failure. You want your government supporting chumps like Musharraf? Don't be surprised when it comes back to bite you on the ass.

You are deluded, being more concerned with candidates expressing all these meaningless emotions and appearances, and denying the hard facts.


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Edited by Minstrel (12/27/07 08:00 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Minstrel]
    #7805975 - 12/27/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I was in suspense waiting for his interview on this subject, with MSNBC earlier today. Paul said EXACTLY, what I was hoping he would and then some!!!!( He covered what was in the CNN interview and much more that I thought was Great for him to say on television).

I think he helped himself a lot as I think fewer by the day are falling for this crap about the U.S. having to solve every countries problems for them at our outrageous expense we can't even afford, "scares' about "certain peoples" nukes, but not others, and feeling pressured into sticking with a pro war mongering President.

Quite frankly, I think most Americans just want to get back to baseball, apple pie, and bitching about their bosses. Most are worried about foreclosures, job security and crime in their neighborhoods long before they are a terrorist attack.

It's growing tiresome watching this election become more about geo-politics then issues on the domestic home front.

I think those with a globalist agenda have infiltrated more mediums then I even realized.

All the more I was amped to get 25 more Ron Paul signs out in my town earlier tonight.

I have no doubt that most all Paul supporters were impressed with his consistency on Foreign policy and continued lack of pandering when asked about Bhutto and what he would do. His honesty on the facts of the situation and rational "breath of fresh air" stance on what our position should be with Pakistan, probably turned on a lot more people who are fed up with the status quo.

Zappa, please just remember that this republican candidate you call nuts and out of touch, is looking like he will have the highest fund raising fourth quarter of them all. Money talks and America is saying Ron Paul with their cash!!

Paul is probably more in touch with Americans then you are right now.

Over all of the holiday festivities with family and friends this past week, I have heard nothing but positive comments about Paul from others paying attention to this race.

What's nuts is sending billions of dollars of financial aide to an unelected Military dictator, with 8% popularity, who has been harboring Bin Laden and who has nukes.

Our Foriegn policy is what is bat shit crazy!!!

From the time we didn't follow Al Queda into Pakistan, because we were playing footsie with Mushariff, and went in to steal Iraq's Oil instead, Paul has been asking why we have not been in Pakistan going after Al Queda there. Had he been the President, we wouldn't have spent a fortune creating the Al Queda breeding ground that we did in Iraq, and probably would've taken out the Al Queda groups that killed Bhutto, who would've been elected and turned things around for the better in Pakistan.

Paul just keeps scoring more points with me the more I hear him talk and watch the messes we have been creating abroad grow.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7806046 - 12/27/07 11:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

He is a life failure on the pragmatism scale. Champion zero. I have shown that twice by posting his record. Zero bills passed and I guarantee none of his votes ever made a difference.




So what? Lincoln was a repeated failure on the way to becoming one of our greatest presidents. Revolutions seem like failures right up until the time they break through. Ron Paul represents a movement in its infancy more than an individual candidacy. Those who scoff should review their history books.

Do I think he can win? No. Do I think the movement he represents can win eventually? Absolutely.

As it must.

Time to get back to basics. Your neocon boys have left an awful mess behind their rumps.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Edited by zorbman (12/27/07 11:42 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7806681 - 12/28/07 06:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Is there some trick to getting that video to play? Cuz if there is I'd sure like to know it.

Here's some commentary from someone who is no fan of Ron Paul, but I have no idea if he is referring here to that CNN video or to the far lengthier FOX video he links at the beginning of the post --

Quote:

The Only Man Who Can Save [strike]America[/strike] Pakistan
—Ace

Bryan's analysis is spot-on, http://hotair.com/archives/2007/12/27/video-ron-paul-reacts-to-bhuttos-death-by-playing-the-same-tired-blame-america-tune/ and here is another example of a childish mind reducing a complex situation to simplistic sound-bite sophistries his limited intellect can comprehend.

The little bitch whines in that effeminate voice of his that, basically, our foreign policy should consist of a Smile Being Our Umbrella and also of course resorts to the Blame America First critique of the crank left/crank right/Anarco-Socialist/Nazi Union.

I do enjoy how the childish leftists constantly make two contradictory complaints: 1) We should engage in more "diplomacy" with these often-unsavory regimes, "talk to them, reason with them," as Doktor Paul screeches like a girl here, and 2) we should not be supporting "military dictators."

Um, asshole? Isn't "supporting" a regime part of "diplomacy"? And which regimes precisely should we be talking with, reasoning with, if not the junta that actually, you know, runs the fucking country? Should we pretend that some group of university protester types is actually running Pakistan and just "talk with, reason with" them while treating the actual ruling claque as undiplomatically as possible, by shunning them?

They have no answers. None at all. They're like Elliot in True Romance screeching in the elevator when a gun is put to his head, "I want to be taken out of here, I don't want to be here anymore!" All they do is attempt to wish the world's problems away. Not confront the problem, not deal with the problem. But simply offer up some glib bumper-sticker Zen bullshit and pretend the problem doesn't exist.

Oh yeah -- and blame America, of course. They're not much for giving advice going forward, but damn, are they quick to glibly claim "It's all America's fault."

It's all they can do. It's not "idealism," it's dementia, and it's cowardice. The world is what it is, not what Herr Doktor Paul and Russ Feingold schoolgirlishly pine for it to be.




http://ace.mu.nu/archives/250436.php

It's worth going to the hotair.com link and reading the analysis there as well. While Ron Paul may have some good ideas on how the US can improve itself domestically as a country (sadly, 90% of those ideas cannot be enacted by the president, but instead depend on Congress) he has consistently shown himself to be almost completely clueless in the area of foreign affairs and even modern history.

Fortunately for Republicans he will not be the Republican candidate for president in 2008 -- no matter how much money he raises.



Phred


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Phred]
    #7807134 - 12/28/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Like I said,

He is doing better and the attacks are going to come on a lot harder.
a movement created by RP threatens a lot of people, as such, attacks on him should be expected to be fierce.

I'm tired of hearing the reason for not supporting Paul of, " The President can only do so much" as if it only applies to one candidate. The limited power a President has, applies to ALL candidates. The same can be said to supporters of any candidate.

It's the people who elect their congress and senate that are to put the pressure on them regarding how they vote in the House and Senate. We saw how effective that can be when they took action via phone calls and e-mails during the last Shamnisty Bill fiasco.

To the side of that, Paul is stirring the people up to take their power back again. Paul's supporters know that the power to effect change doesn't come from the President, as much as it comes from the people that elect their government leaders.

Even McCain supporters for shamnesty, have to sit back now and hear him say, " Okay Okay, the American people spoke. They want the borders tightened before we look for immigration reform. I heard them."

Congressmen and Senators need to be elected By The People and can be held accountable by the people who elected them. Unless anyone here wants to admit to voting fraud, the people ultimately still hold the power and the Amnesty fiasco and Paul have reminded the American People of that. They are waking from their slumber and this is scaring a lot of people. That's why the attacks against Paul are often vicious but more obvious and sadly, made up of nothing but backless name calling and straw men.

We are the masters of debate in here and we know what people do when they do not have a legitimate argument. They start name calling throwing out the ad hominem attacks, and pulling straw men from their ass.

I wish we could invite the man here who wrote that piece you quoted and have a debate with him where facts are all that mean anything. Ron Paul is a 71 year old, ten term elected Congressmen, Air Force veteran, accomplished OBGYN, happily married to the same woman for 50 years, Father of 5 and grandfather to 13, not a "school girl". Those are the facts. Clearly, the writer is already delusional and or willing to twist and distort the truth and lie, to negatively influence the reader on the subject. The sad part is that, if his first post was that quote, he would have to be given a warning off the bat for breaking froum debate rules.

Back to Paul's Foreign Policy. His response is to Paul's commentary on the Bhutto assination. Perhaps we should hear from Bhutto herself.

Parade Magazine will be publishing an interview with Benazir Buhtto on January 6th and this is the most interesting part:

What would you like to tell President Bush? I ask this riddle of a woman.

She would tell him, she replies, that propping up Musharraf's government, which is infested with radical Islamists, is only hastening disaster. "I would say, 'Your policy of supporting dictatorship is breaking up my country.' I now think al-Qaeda can be marching on Islamabad in two to four years."

The interview is here:

http://www.parade.com/benazir_bhutto_interview.html

Gee, she sounds just like......Ron Paul.

Here is another replay on a radio interview given by a Pakistani journalist-

Quote:

I listen to POTUS 08 channel 130 on XM satellite radio.

There was a journalist in Pakistan, he seemed like the expert on Pakistani politics, he seemed quite depressed, his name was William Whitter or something.

He was describing the situation, then took a step back and interjected his own opinion.

His opinion was PRETTY MUCH DEAD ON with Ron Paul's belief that overall, the US involvement in the middle east and Pakistan etc. end up causing more trouble and more US resentment.

He was speaking overall, that the US tries to MICRO MANAGE the politics over there and they get stuck in the middle and make it worse. They have good intentions but they micro manage the situation and it just gets worse.

He felt the Pakistanis and other countries where we try to prop up democracy, we end up alienating many more people, they end up disliking our intervention, and MANY of them end up feeling like Islam is under threat with the US being involved, even though that's not the case.

He stated this 2-3 times and said something like, But in Washington/America, they just don't get it!

He didn't exactly blame Bhutto's death on the US, but Bush's influence (micromanaging) to get democracy moving in Pakistan ending up hurting the cause more than helping (he didn't say blow back or anything but you get the idea).

It was the first time after Ron Paul I heard someone so CLEARLY say we keep F*ing things up, and we always seem to make it worse, and our interventionism is a problem.

He strongly criticized our foreign policy and he's supposed to be the expert journalist on location with a pulse of the people. I really wanted to get his full name so I could send him an email and turn him onto Ron Paul!!!

No one from POTUS said anything like, "Hey! That's what RP has been saying for months!" Nope it was just silent.

Instead they are turning this attack into scare tactic, "WE NEED TO ATTACK! THEY ARE COMING FOR US! TERROR ALERT! 9/11!!! 9/11!! GO! FIGHT!" I heard McCain and Hilary sending out the warning signals and drumming up the war battle cry.

Did anyone else hear that interview? It was sad the reporter was pretty depressed about the tragedy and pretty gloomy about the current state of affairs and bleak future, but I thought it was real important for PEOPLE TO HEAR! It's not just Ron Paul who's saying this, people over there, objectively looking at what we are doing, AGREE WITH Ron Paul!!




The only other thing I'll add at this point is an open invite for anyone to cite where Paul has been wrong on his knowledge of History, as that author in Phreds quote, says he is, yet does give one example for where he has been wrong.

Paul speaks about history a lot and I have not seen one word of his on it discredited yet, by anyone, including the American media that would love to catch him on something for blood sport.


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7807229 - 12/28/07 11:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The only other thing I'll add at this point is an open invite for anyone to cite where Paul has been wrong on his knowledge of History, as that author in Phreds quote, says he is, yet doesn't give one example for where he has been wrong.

Paul speaks about history a lot and I have not seen one word of his on it discredited yet, by anyone, including the American media that would love to catch him on something for blood sport.




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"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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OfflinePhred
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7807464 - 12/28/07 01:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

jiggy writes:

Quote:

The only other thing I'll add at this point is an open invite for anyone to cite where Paul has been wrong on his knowledge of History...




There's a reason I suggested people check out the link at hotair.com as well as Ace's piece. I even provided the link. From hotair --

Quote:

But in Ron Paul’s world, all problems are the result of the US taking action. Any action. Anywhere. Against anyone, doing anything. In the case of Pakistan, he says we should cut off aid to our “puppet” in Pakistan and make sure not to march in there with troops. There is, of course, at most a neglible possibility that we’ll send troops into Pakistan to do anything beyond taking on al Qaeda or securing the nukes. India might, but even that’s highly unlikely. And never mind that Pakistan’s history with democracy is sketchy, to say the least. Should we not have attempted to work with Musharraf against al Qaeda, Patriot Paul? Paul also tosses out the canard that we supported Osama bin Laden. Someone really needs to disabuse him of that notion one of these days. Someone should bone him up on the history of al Qaeda as well. It didn’t form because we support Musharraf, as Paul seems to think.




I'd really like to see Dr Paul point out to the world at what point in history the US supported Osama bin Laden.

Jiggy goes on to write:

Quote:

I'm tired of hearing the reason for not supporting Paul of, " The President can only do so much" as if it only applies to one candidate.




Of course that caveat applies to all the candidates. The thing is, the rest of the candidates (with occasional exceptions) seem to understand the Constitution better on this point than Paul does. The Constitution limits the areas of responsibility of Congress and of the Executive, and unfortunately for Paul, the changes he is most vehement about wanting to make are not his to make, but Congress's. For someone who claims to be such a champion of the Constitution, he shows on a daily basis an astonishing ignorance of the separation of powers the Constitution lays out.

Quote:

It's the people who elect their congress and senate that are to put the pressure on them regarding how they vote in the House and Senate. We saw how effective that can be when they took action via phone calls and e-mails during the last Shamnisty Bill fiasco.




Exactly. That was something Bush favored, and he got hosed on it because Congress didn't come through. Same with Social Security reform. Paul can chant about all the changes he's going to make till he's blue in the face, but without Congress behind him, he can't make them.

Quote:

Clearly, the writer is already delusional and or willing to twist and distort the truth and lie, to negatively influence the reader on the subject. The sad part is that, if his first post was that quote, he would have to be given a warning off the bat for breaking froum debate rules.




The writer twisted no truths. He pointed out Paul's deficiencies in his understanding of international relations -- as if we needed him to do that; even a casual student of foreign affairs in the post-WWII area will have noted these deficiencies already.

Quote:

The sad part is that, if his first post was that quote, he would have to be given a warning off the bat for breaking froum debate rules.




Only if he had been responding to a post in this forum by Ron Paul. Why not invite Ron Paul to sign up as a Shroomery member, jiggy?

Quote:

Perhaps we should hear from Bhutto herself.




Bhutto was herself a politician, and as such was given to issuing self-serving statements. Her rule was as corrupt and feckless as pretty much any other Pakistani head of state's rule has been since that benighted country's inception. It can be argued that if restored to power she MAY have been marginally less objectionable than Musharraf, but it would take a skilled arguer indeed to pull that off.



Phred


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Phred]
    #7807525 - 12/28/07 02:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I dunno, Phred, I just clicked it again and it worked. Wait a little while and it automatically starts itself.

I can't believe that this idiot thinks we should or can ignore the whole rest of the world. I don't know why he thinks it isn't in the USA's interests for us to have a reasonably friendly government in charge in Pakistan that at least makes it difficult for the lunatics to use normal methods of interaction (banks, phones, internet, etc.). He's just fucking stupid. And oh yeah, for the last two fiscal years Pakistan got $785M and $707M. Afghanistan got more and have way fewer people. That doesn't include the cost of troops there. We don't have troops in Pakistan.
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?168195


We've been giving Pakistan aid for decades.
http://www.usaid.gov/pk/mission/background/index.htm
"almost $400 million a year in the early 1960s."
No matter who was in power.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Phred]
    #7807694 - 12/28/07 03:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Paul is no more ignorant on world politics than GWB or Clinton were. Neither of them had any real experience with international relations.


Edited by Redstorm (12/28/07 04:36 PM)


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7807699 - 12/28/07 03:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

]


Edited by Luddite (12/28/07 03:37 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7807971 - 12/28/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

IHe said that he doesn't like foreign aid in the form of large cash payments
and meddlesome diplomacy.

When has he ever suggested that we ignore the rest of the world?


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Phred]
    #7808260 - 12/28/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"I'd really like to see Dr Paul point out to the world at what point in history the US supported Osama bin Laden. "

While the U.S. didn't hand him money to plan 9/11, he and his ilk were our allies when we fought the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7808264 - 12/28/07 06:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Cmon Zappa, you can do better than this garbled mish mash of over generalizations and ad hominem attacks. Try again.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: xFrockx]
    #7808387 - 12/28/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Cmon Zappa, you can do better than this garbled mish mash of over generalizations and ad hominem attacks.




No he can't

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Try again.




Please don't


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7810201 - 12/29/07 10:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Anyone who thinks Ron Paul's sense of foreign policy doesn't make sense just doesn't understand that the United States of America is not the alpha and omega of this planet. Any threat that a radical, nuclear Pakistan poses will be successfully neutralized by their next-door neighbor, India.

India is far more capable than the United States of America of handling this, and Ron Paul's sense of foreign policy lets those who Pakistan actually poses a threat to take care of it themselves, while the USA can focus inward and build itself up economically.

Phred, he might have some great ideas for solving problems domestically, but you have to realize that we can't have it both ways. We can't play empire and thrust ourselves into internal affairs of countries in Asia, and take care of ourselves at home.

If Ron Paul does become President, he'd clearly be carried into office by overwhelming support of the American people. The most effective role Ron Paul would play is as an obstacle to a Congress spending and spending, but what is more, is that the American people will be demanding Congress do what it needs to carry through his ideas. In a time where Americans are upset and angry with every side of the political coin, someone like Ron Paul can accomplish great things with their support. :wink:

We can speculate as to his chances of actually getting carried into office, but I'd rather wait and see. :hehehe:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7810211 - 12/29/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Any threat that a radical, nuclear Pakistan poses will be successfully neutralized by their next-door neighbor, India.




You can't be serious.

Quote:

If Ron Paul does become President, he'd clearly be carried into office by overwhelming support of the American people.




Overwhelming? Don't be delusional. Here's an educational exercise for you -- dig up for us the last president of the United States who was voted into office with more than 55% of the popular vote.

No matter who wins the 2008 election (and it certainly won't be Ron Paul), it won't be an overwhelming win.

Quote:

The most effective role Ron Paul would play is as an obstacle to a Congress spending and spending, but what is more, is that the American people will be demanding Congress do what it needs to carry through his ideas.




This is just fantasy. The Executive and Congress are each jealous of the slightest whiff of the other encroaching on their turf. Congress will often thwart the Executive just to show it can. Why you believe this will change with a crank as president escapes me -- especially when that crank is calling for stripping vast chunks of power from Congress.



Phred


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Phred]
    #7810306 - 12/29/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Any threat that a radical, nuclear Pakistan poses will be successfully neutralized by their next-door neighbor, India.




You can't be serious.




Why not? They've been fighting Pakistan's guerillas for quite some time. They understand the situation much more and have greater incentive than we do, as their country would have an actual threat.

Quote:


Overwhelming? Don't be delusional. Here's an educational exercise for you -- dig up for us the last president of the United States who was voted into office with more than 55% of the popular vote.




Sorry, but if Ron Paul receives the Republican nomination, there is no Democratic candidate that could even come close to the level he'll be at. On average, only 50% of the voting age population actually turns out. Ron Paul is already tapping into that vein. If Ron Paul receives the Republican nomination, I'd predict 75% of the popular vote. :smirk:

Quote:


No matter who wins the 2008 election (and it certainly won't be Ron Paul), it won't be an overwhelming win.




If it is Ron Paul, it will be. :hehehe:

Quote:


This is just fantasy. The Executive and Congress are each jealous of the slightest whiff of the other encroaching on their turf. Congress will often thwart the Executive just to show it can. Why you believe this will change with a crank as president escapes me -- especially when that crank is calling for stripping vast chunks of power from Congress.




Congress is elected by and represents the people. If effective oversight of Congress by the people occurs, then that changes everything. It won't be business as usual, as such doesn't normally occur. If Ron Paul becomes president, it will be through the movement of people becoming active, and that oversight will exist. The work will be done when the boss is standing over their shoulders. :wink:


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7816334 - 12/31/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

everyone, including ron paul, knows he doesn't have a shot in the election. he's running because it's an opportunity for him and those who support what he's about to make a statement.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: wilshire]
    #7816392 - 12/31/07 09:23 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'd love to see Paul president. I plan on being one of those dorks that keep his RON PAUL bumper stick on his car long after he's lost.... but my biggest fear is that he's end up another Jimmy Carter... great person with good intentions, but who blew it in office.

I mean... sure, for the most part, he's done well in the House and stuck to his principles... but shit.. in the house you're just a tiny voice in a group of over 400 people.

When you get stuck in the oval office, you probably get slammed with a whole can of whoopass decisions you never dreamed were possible, which can force you to chose between the lesser of two evil outcomes no matter what. You're getting plunged into a role that has already been tainted with corruption.

And you know what they say... if you hang around in a barber shop long enough....


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: wilshire]
    #7816411 - 12/31/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
everyone, including ron paul, knows he doesn't have a shot in the election. he's running because it's an opportunity for him and those who support what he's about to make a statement.




Translation: Stupid rhetoric that isn't based in reality.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7816421 - 12/31/07 09:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

so when he DOESNT get the nod are you going to (a) admit you were kidding yourself or (b) start coming up with excuses as to why he didn't get the nod?

no offense fireworks... I like ya.. just a question though


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7816452 - 12/31/07 09:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

wilshire said:
everyone, including ron paul, knows he doesn't have a shot in the election. he's running because it's an opportunity for him and those who support what he's about to make a statement.




Translation: Stupid rhetoric that isn't based in reality.




What is the spouting of Ron Paul supporters on his chances of winning?

Jeopardy Edition!


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7816496 - 12/31/07 10:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

ron paul is not going to win the election. that is what all of the polls, futures markets, and betting agents are saying.

as of now, the likely winners are, in this order:

1. clinton
2. obama
3. giuliani

ron paul is somewhere around 8th or 10th, with current polls in the single digits, futures prices a small fraction of that of the big names, and betting odds around 1 in 20.

^ not stupid rhetoric.

yet we're hearing a lot more about ron paul, and what he stands for, than we did 2 years ago. we're hearing a lot more about it than we would if he was not running, and we're going to continue hearing about it. that's the point of this.

don't be surprised if he runs as an independent when he doesn't get the republican nomination (i'll vote for him). then hopefully he will continue to make noise, and politicians will see that liberty is still politically marketable, and adjust their policies accordingly in the future. just don't expect him to win the election.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: BrAiN]
    #7816697 - 12/31/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
so when he DOESNT get the nod are you going to (a) admit you were kidding yourself or (b) start coming up with excuses as to why he didn't get the nod?




(C) All of the above. :lol: I definitely realize that I could be making the wrong assumptions from the information I am considering, which is beyond what the media reports and the conception that the media dictates who is chosen. Whether or not I would lean towards A or B depends on the specifics of what occurs along the trail. I have no qualms with admitting that I am wrong, and will not make up excuses to avoid doing so. :wink:

The Republican race is pretty open-ended right now, and if the major factor that is being considered in dismissing Ron Paul's chances is the polls, before a single primary has occured, in such an absolute, elections-are-over manner, then we know who is kidding themselves. :lol: It is no secret that a great amount of support of Ron Paul's simply does not register in these polls, the only question is how substansial that under-the-radar support is. One only needs to look to the grass-roots efforts to notice that it is fairly substansial. Ron Paul's campaign donations speaks volumes as well. Fact is, these polls are increasingly ineffective in determining the nature of reality regarding this.

A lot of the established media does not put too much stock in Ron Paul's chances, although that is conflicted because there is a lot being said in the mainstream media that speaks well of Ron Paul and his chances, especially agansit the backdrop of the open acknowledgement that the Republican party could go in any direction. A lot of these polls do place him tied for third in Iowa, for instance, and the under the radar support and the concentrated efforts of the grass-roots efforts in the state could definitely be enough to place him ahead of Thompson, McCain, and Giuliani. That will be proof of what is occuring, which should really give a valuable push to Ron Paul in New Hampshire, which is a state that I would think is already more receptive to voting for Ron Paul than Iowa is.

Let's not sell him short when even the mainstream media recognizes that he is well-poised to continue on into Super Tuesday in a race where more "credible" names such as McCain and Huckabee won't be capable of doing so without great success in these first two primaries. Florida is seeming quite favorable to Ron Paul, not to mention California, and the West Coast as a whole... and the South as a whole...  If he came in last in Iowa and does poorly in New Hampshire, then perhaps it will be a different story, but the atmosphere predicts better than that, and he's got the war chest to carry through without a landslide, which I wouldn't rule out either. :naughty:

We're down to the moments now where it will be evidenced very soon what is happening in this country with the Ron Paul movement, so there's no sense in speculating much further. I just think its lazy for people to rely on the poll numbers in absence of doing their own research, or, worse, get actively involved in making it happen. :lol:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: wilshire]
    #7816815 - 12/31/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
ron paul is not going to win the election. that is what all of the polls, futures markets, and betting agents are saying.




:yawn:

The first votes in the primaries haven't even been cast yet, which is what makes your statement about the general election stupid rhetoric. Far too much can and will happen in that time. No one would have predicted Huckabee's sudden surge in the polls a month ago. I wonder what odds the betting agents placed on that. :rolleyes:

Quote:


as of now, the likely winners are, in this order:

1. clinton
2. obama
3. giuliani




Nonsense. It isn't based in reality. Giuliani is set to place poorly in the early primaries and his plan to take the Super Tuesday states is ill-conceived. Of course, with no votes cast yet in any primary and the general election months away, its entirely possible that Obama and Giuliani won't even be in the race after February. It certainly is convient to make absolute statements though, based on arbitrary numbers. :smirk:

Quote:


ron paul is somewhere around 8th or 10th, with current polls in the single digits, futures prices a small fraction of that of the big names, and betting odds around 1 in 20.




Now is the time to bet, it sounds like. :hehehe:

Again, one only need look to Mike Huckabee's lazy eye to realize that these polls are entirely unpredictive of what tomorrow brings. Of course, some did see it coming before it happened, and that is because they were looking at trends, potential, and the nature of reality. They weren't looking at arbitrary polls from a week ago. :lol:

Quote:


^ not stupid rhetoric.




No, it is, the important thing is that you just haven't realized it yet. Being assured by numbers that may change overnight as development occurs, development that will occur, in a race that everyone in the media will readily testify could go any direction, and by speculative fortune-telling, is a fool's game.

Quote:


yet we're hearing a lot more about ron paul, and what he stands for, than we did 2 years ago. we're hearing a lot more about it than we would if he was not running, and we're going to continue hearing about it. that's the point of this.




The point of what... your selling him short, with little information or understanding to base it upon? :shrug:

Quote:


don't be surprised if he runs as an independent when he doesn't get the republican nomination (i'll vote for him).




Why shouldn't we be surprised? I think it would be surprising if the law were changed in a lot of states in order to even allow this to happen. :rofl2:

There are too many obstacles for Ron Paul to run as an independent candidate now, especially to do so successfully. The only plausible scenario I see in which he would do so is for leverage to receive the Republican nomination. :hehehe:

Quote:


then hopefully he will continue to make noise, and politicians will see that liberty is still politically marketable, and adjust their policies accordingly in the future. just don't expect him to win the election.




No, it isn't enough to settle for that, Ron Paul isn't settling for that and the grass-roots campaign is not settling for that, the situation this country is in is too dire to settle for that. It is survival at this point. :smirk:


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7817157 - 12/31/07 01:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

For once I agree with MushroomTrip, leave Pakistan to India, they may have nukes, but I don't think they could get it to America if they wanted to, its not our problem.


Edited by xFrockx (12/31/07 01:53 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: xFrockx]
    #7817444 - 12/31/07 03:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I hope f-g isn't emo, because I really don't want to see another Ripper in a couple of weeks.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7817507 - 12/31/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Far too much can and will happen in that time. No one would have predicted Huckabee's sudden surge in the polls a month ago. I wonder what odds the betting agents placed on that.

of course things can change. that's why there is wagering and futures speculation at all. what is most likely to happen is that clinton, obama, or giuliani will win the presidential election.

i'm just going with the best available data here. you're going with... what?

Nonsense. It isn't based in reality.

i'm citing prediction methods that have proven accurate in the past. you are not. :shrug:

what chance do you give ron paul in winning the presidential election?

better than 1 in 10?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: wilshire]
    #7818720 - 12/31/07 11:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
of course things can change. that's why there is wagering and futures speculation at all. what is most likely to happen is that clinton, obama, or giuliani will win the presidential election.




No, it isn't what is most likely to happen, unless you would be kind enough to demonstrate exactly how it is most likely to happen. :strokebeard:

Quote:


i'm just going with the best available data here. you're going with... what?




The best available data. If you think the polls and the speculative gambling is the best way to gauge what will happen in a general election when the first votes in the primaries haven't even been cast, then you're a moron. :shrug:

Quote:


i'm citing prediction methods that have proven accurate in the past. you are not. :shrug:




I'm citing actual information from what is actually occuring in the primary races, coupled with reasonable assessments of what will happen based on trends and the general political atmosphere. Your saying "these three candidates are most likely to win the general election" because arbitrary measures say as much is pretty damned baseless.

Quote:


what chance do you give ron paul in winning the presidential election?

better than 1 in 10?




It all depends on how the primaries occur, naturally. If Ron Paul wins the Republican nomination, then I would give him 1 in 1 odds. :wink: His chances of winning the Republican nomination? At this point, before any voting has occured, I'd say 1 in 3.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7818771 - 01/01/08 12:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'd give you those odds in a second. Care to take them?


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Redstorm]
    #7818778 - 01/01/08 12:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I'd give you those odds in a second. Care to take them?



:popcorn:


--------------------
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Redstorm]
    #7818811 - 01/01/08 12:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'd take the odds for the Republican nomination if I could. :wink: All of my money is being directed into my "leave this country" fund. :smirk: The little I can spare goes to Ron Paul's campaign. :thumbup:


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If I should die this very moment
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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7818826 - 01/01/08 01:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Why not accept the wager and donate the proceeds to Ron Paul? :grin:


--------------------
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zorbman]
    #7818833 - 01/01/08 01:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:rofl2:

He needs my money now, to make it happen. My money is much more crucial to his success right now than after the Republican nomination. :tongue:


--------------------
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Invisible2sky
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7819011 - 01/01/08 03:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:laugh:


--------------------
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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7819421 - 01/01/08 09:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:rotfl:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7819517 - 01/01/08 10:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
:rofl2:

He needs my money now, to make it happen. My money is much more crucial to his success right now than after the Republican nomination. :tongue:




When you send in your Unicef type box with the coins in it do you have to file with the government?  And when he flames out and you leave the country do us all a favor.  Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.  That's all.


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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7821086 - 01/01/08 06:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

No, it isn't what is most likely to happen, unless you would be kind enough to demonstrate exactly how it is most likely to happen.

i don't know why it's most likely to happen. i don't follow basketball, but i can tell by looking at the odds bookmakers are posting who will likely win a game, without having a clue as to why. same thing.

The best available data. If you think the polls and the speculative gambling is the best way to gauge what will happen in a general election when the first votes in the primaries haven't even been cast, then you're a moron.

prediction markets are widely acknowledged to be arguably the most accurate way to predict future events. i'm surprised that you are unaware of this, and i'm more surprised that you would go so far as to call me a moron because i am aware of it.

It all depends on how the primaries occur, naturally. If Ron Paul wins the Republican nomination, then I would give him 1 in 1 odds. His chances of winning the Republican nomination? At this point, before any voting has occured, I'd say 1 in 3.

ok. one in three odds. how much would you like to wager?

i'll give you 10 to 1 odds that he loses. if he loses the republican primary, you pay me $500. if he wins, i will pay you $5000.

you don't have to put any money up. you think he's got a 1 in 3 chance. i'm giving you 1 in 10 to bet on. you don't have to put anything up, and when you win, that $5000 should really put a boost on your 'get out of the country' thing.

do we have a deal?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: wilshire]
    #7823093 - 01/02/08 10:28 AM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
i don't know why it's most likely to happen. i don't follow basketball, but i can tell by looking at the odds bookmakers are posting who will likely win a game, without having a clue as to why. same thing.

prediction markets are widely acknowledged to be arguably the most accurate way to predict future events. i'm surprised that you are unaware of this, and i'm more surprised that you would go so far as to call me a moron because i am aware of it.





Exactly, and, no doubt, the national polls are the most determinate factor that they consider, evidenced by their top three picks. If they are basing their odds on the consensus of the mainstream media, with the polls driving the majority of their consensus, then they are observing reality through a limited lens that is not registering what is actually occuring.

I realize that I'm placing myself out on a limb by claiming to be more capable of predicting the nature of how reality will unfold regarding this than the established "most accurate way to predict future events". :hehehe: Of course, prediction markets are very capable of predicting future events that unfold in formulaic manners, such as football games. There is an established order in the process of the event, and all they have to do is gauge the unknown variables, like the nature of each player, the team's performance this year, etc. etc. etc., and find a comfortable assumption.

I'm sure it works much more effectively with football, considering how many football games have been played in the last fifty years. Clearly, as well, some manner of order has manifested in presidental elections since the television has come into being, and clearly the corporate, mainstream media has exerted its fair share of effort into maintaining this. :smirk:

However, this election is an entirely different story, thanks to the Internet and the prevalence of the generation that was raised with it into politics. It is a chaos factor in regards to the established sense of order, and the mainstream media and those that rely on it to formulate odds won't realize the full extent of its crucial role in transforming the race until the votes are cast. They already realize the role it has played in Ron Paul's fund-raising, of course, because that is the first means they have had of quantifying it.

The proliferation of information that a centralized media could never even dream of replicating creates a lot more understanding of what is actually occuring, and who the candidates actually are. The money Ron Paul has raised through the Internet is testament enough that those who are the most informed as to who the candidates are support Ron Paul exponentially more than anyone else.

The only question here is the effectiveness that those who are connected have in reaching those who are not and bringing them to vote for Ron Paul as well. I think that Iowa is the true test of this, considering the nature of the state. I'm not saying that Iowa isn't connected through the internet, but Iowa is one of the more traditional states, in my personal experience. The fact that, at the very least, we can expect third place is a great sign of what is set to come, and positions him quite well to build up momentum going forward.

Also, the grass-roots organization is much stronger than anyone else's. We can raise more money for Ron Paul than any other candidate can receive, but we can also put a blimp in the air, send 600,000 hand-written letters into Iowa, run full-page ads in major newspapers repeatedly, our own television ads, etc. etc. etc.... all of this money raised by individuals. Its unprecedented and unexpected.... all thanks to the amazing power of the Internet. :tripping:

I could go on like this but I'd rather enjoy the moment and anticipate tomorrow night's results. :wink:

I didn't call you a moron. :shrug: I proposed an if/then statement, so perhaps you identified yourself as a moron as a result. I wouldn't call you a moron on reflection, just existing with a lack of information and an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy. :smirk:

Quote:


i'll give you 10 to 1 odds that he loses. if he loses the republican primary, you pay me $500. if he wins, i will pay you $5000.

you don't have to put any money up. you think he's got a 1 in 3 chance. i'm giving you 1 in 10 to bet on. you don't have to put anything up, and when you win, that $5000 should really put a boost on your 'get out of the country' thing.

do we have a deal?




Did you not read my previous posts in this thread, or did you neglect your reading-comprehension skills? :what:

Living with the woman that I love with all of my being transcends my enthusiasm and perspective on Ron Paul and what is occuring regarding him, and any money that I can spare I put into Ron Paul's campaign to make it happen. I would never bet money I do not presently have to back it up, even if I do not to put it up front, especially with that much money. The fact that I'm a sane individual and would not feel absolutely certain I would win compounds it. Let's not pretend that my inability to wager equates with my take on the matter not being sound.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7823107 - 01/02/08 10:31 AM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
When you send in your Unicef type box with the coins in it do you have to file with the government?




I believe the official campaign reports to the government information regarding the usage of my debit card to donate to them a couple hundred dollars, if that is what you mean. :shrug:

Quote:


  And when he flames out and you leave the country do us all a favor.  Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.  That's all.




He isn't going to flame out. Only the ignorant hold such a viewpoint. I'll likely be gone before his campaign is. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7824099 - 01/02/08 03:07 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

I like how "Ignorant" to you means anyone with a different opinion.

You're a very enlightened being.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Edited by Madtowntripper (01/02/08 03:19 PM)


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OfflineBrAiN
Art Fag
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Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7824121 - 01/02/08 03:18 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

That's Ig-NANT! DATS HOW WE PRONOUNCE IT HERE.


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Offlinewilshire
free radical
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7824553 - 01/02/08 05:47 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

how about 100 to 1 odds?

you can wager $1, can't you? he wins the presidency and i'll give you $100.

deal?


--------------------



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7826377 - 01/03/08 03:09 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I like how "Ignorant" to you means anyone with a different opinion.

You're a very enlightened being.




No, ignorant to me means falling for the appeal to authority while dismissing information of what is actually occuring. Even the authority, the mainstream media, is acknowledging that his chances are very good at building momentum, coming out of Iowa and even better odds in New Hampshire. They acknowledge the signifigance of his warchest that he has spontaneously raised, the signifigance of the likelihood that he will beat Giuliani in Iowa, the signifigance that he is positioned to ride through February 5th while candidates like Fred Thompson, Huckabee, and McCain might not make it. They have all felt the power of the grass-roots support, the revolution that is occuring, and only question its ability to reach traditional voters, stating that, if the younger vote comes out, he has great chances of winning.

They, of course, are pulling the foot out of their mouths the day before his suprising results come in, since they know they can't stop him now, and the media that has tried in an obvious way, Fox, is looking really bad right now for it.

Differing opinions are differing opinions, and ignorance of something that is occuring is ignorance. Most differing opinions result from a lack of information. If I've used the term ignorance, it isn't in a condescending way, simply implying the definition of the word for what it means - lack of knowledge or information. :shocked:



--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: wilshire]
    #7826392 - 01/03/08 03:19 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

How about $5? Hell, I'd put in $25 on those odds, or even 10 to 1 odds, but I most certainly accept that wager of $1 at 100 to 1 odds. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinewilshire
free radical
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7827792 - 01/03/08 02:46 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

$25 at 10 to 1. i'll take that.

when i win, you may donate the $25 to the shroomery. :tongue:


--------------------



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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: wilshire]
    #7828332 - 01/03/08 04:54 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Deal! Are we on for the $1 at 100 to 1, as well? :strokebeard:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinewilshire
free radical
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 days
Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7955853 - 01/30/08 02:25 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Are we on for the $1 at 100 to 1, as well?

if you'll still take those odds, sure.


--------------------



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OfflineBrAiN
Art Fag
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Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: wilshire]
    #7957551 - 01/30/08 08:00 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

WHo was it that I tried to bet that ron paul WOULDN'T get the nomination by having him change his avatar?

Was it fireworks_god, or gettinjiggywitit?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: I don't think your boy did himself any good [Re: BrAiN]
    #7960420 - 01/31/08 02:26 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Somebody owes me money but I can't remember who. Probably two people. Tenners. My guess is that fireworks_god is one of them.


--------------------


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