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Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven?
    #7570044 -

I see all these things telling me to turn the oven up over 160F to some random number, then come back, check the temp, and THEN turn the temp down.

What's the point of doing that? Why not just plop the thing in the oven, turn the oven to 160F, and give it enough time so that the inside reaches 160F? Seems a lot easier to me.


--------------------
Life is one big road with lots of signs,
So when you're ridin' through the ruts,
Don't you complicate your mind.

Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy
Don't bury your thoughts,
Put your vision to reality, yeah!

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7570120 -

That would be the proper way to do it in my opinion and personal experience with the oven tek. Some people are not patient enough to wait! I put around 8 5lb bags in the oven with plenty of room between them and set the oven to 170F, (That's as low as my oven goes). I set it for around 3 hours. Three hours later, I turn the oven off and let the bags slowly cool down on their own, (about another 2 hours). So there you have it, 40lbs of bulk substrate pasteurized in a total of 5 hours.


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AMU Q&A thread.

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7570733 -

From my culinary experience in roasting large objects in the oven, at only 160f, it would take almost half a day to get the core temperatures up to 160f.

You can speed things up by hydrating with boiling water, but I bake at 250-300 to achieve the proper core temperature. I also use a Taylor digital oven thermometer (same one Alton Brown uses on Good Eats).

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: zathan]
    #7571097 -

There's a big difference between dry heat and wet heat

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: zathan]
    #7571169 -

zathan said:
From my culinary experience in roasting large objects in the oven, at only 160f, it would take almost half a day to get the core temperatures up to 160f.

You can speed things up by hydrating with boiling water, but I bake at 250-300 to achieve the proper core temperature. I also use a Taylor digital oven thermometer (same one Alton Brown uses on Good Eats).


Good point! I guess I didn't take into account the fact that I do the substrate mixing, bagging, and pasteurizing all in the same day. I hydrate my coir with boiling water, so by the time I mix in everything and start weighing them out into 5lb bags the shit is still pretty damn warm. I am a restaurant manager and have a personal deep probe meat thermometer. I insert the 4" probe in the center bag. I guess I never thought of someone starting from room temperature and raising it to 160+F.


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AMU Q&A thread.

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: zathan]
    #7571232 -

zathan said:
From my culinary experience in roasting large objects in the oven, at only 160f, it would take almost half a day to get the core temperatures up to 160f.

You can speed things up by hydrating with boiling water, but I bake at 250-300 to achieve the proper core temperature. I also use a Taylor digital oven thermometer (same one Alton Brown uses on Good Eats).


Please take into consideration that we're not talking about your average 20lb roast here! LOL!
Cooking at a constant oven temperature of 300°F (160°C), a 5- to 8-lb standing rib roast will take 18-20 minutes per pound. At that rate, yes a twenty pound cut of meat cooking at 170F would take half a day to reach temperature, (hell it would take about 7 hrs at 300F). BUT, I'm talking about 5lb bags and there is a huge difference in density between meat,(muscle fiber) and a various mix of mostly straw, dung, coir, worm castings, etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, but I think that was comparing apples and oranges.


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AMU Q&A thread.

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7571803 -

hmmm ok so if boiling h2o is used to heat it up to begin with, you CAN just set it to 170 or 160F and it won't take too long to heat up the core?


i always wonder, if you turn the oven to 300, then the outside contents of your bag will reach 300F....and that is bad.

this is why i thought itd be good to avoid high temps and just do 170F.

that, and its a pain in the butt to check on an oven back with a thermometor. id rather just set it and forget it.

im still not clear as to whether or not its ok to do what im sayin. is it ok as long as you use boiling water to begin with?


--------------------
Life is one big road with lots of signs,
So when you're ridin' through the ruts,
Don't you complicate your mind.

Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy
Don't bury your thoughts,
Put your vision to reality, yeah!

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7571817 -

Quote:
hmmm ok so if boiling h2o is used to heat it up to begin with


...if you do that it will likely be higher than 160 to begin with. Yes, that method works fine, it just requires constant monitoring.

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7572204 -

Ovens are not suitable for pasteurization. At 160F, it would take 12 hours or longer for the inside of a 5 pound substrate bag to reach 140F. You're only supposed to pasterurize for an hour, to an hour and a half maximum, so by the time your substrate or casing material reached the right temp in the center, the outside is partially sterilized. Use water to pasteurize. Water is a much better heat conductor than air, which can only transfer the heat by convection.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7572734 -

Quote:
Ovens are not suitable for pasteurization. At 160F, it would take 12 hours or longer for the inside of a 5 pound substrate bag to reach 140F. You're only supposed to pasterurize for an hour, to an hour and a half maximum,


I disagree. I hydrate with 130F water, then squeeze (painfully) to field capacity, and insert two remote thermometers. With the oven at 220 or so, the outside of each bag only gets to about 180 by the end (not for the whole time), the inside rests at 150. The entire process takes about 2 1/2 hours. It takes 12 hours or longer if you're cooking a dense piece of room-temperature meat.

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7575827 -

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm now i have to decide which method to use...

was very excited to possibly NOT have to deal with a soaking slop ball of substrate to boil.

RR when you say water pastuerization, do you mean an oven bag (with the opening above the water) in a pot of water?

Or do you mean a pillowcase soaked in water that you must dry?

Can one just put an oven bag (with field capacity substrate inside) in a pot of water and monitor temperature?

THANKS! This must be decided quickly!!


--------------------
Life is one big road with lots of signs,
So when you're ridin' through the ruts,
Don't you complicate your mind.

Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy
Don't bury your thoughts,
Put your vision to reality, yeah!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7575842 -

RR does his pasteurization in a pressure cooker; all the substrate goes into quart mason jars, and gets boiled in the PC until the center reaches 160F. It's highly reliable, but a major pain in the ass.

The pillowcase crap is...crap. It's not often mentioned that it's only helpful with composted/cow manure. You can also do wet pasteurization by  taking water up to 160-170F, hydrating manure with it, resting for 2 hours, and squeezing to field capacity.

You can certainly put an oven bag in a pot of water. It will work quicker and more reliably. That's just a mess though :smile:

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7575857 -

ok

well since oven pasteurization is questionable in its reliability (even though it works for some) then I'd like to avoid that

Which leaves the next best option (I think) of putting the oven bag in a pot of water (but with the opening NOT submerged). This seems like a non-messy way of doing things reliably.

Anything involving hydrating the substrate more than field capacity is ridiculous to me and very messy and time consuming.



On the topic of pressure cooking to pasteurize - if one only has a rocker type pressure cooker, how do you ensure the temperature reaches 160 and stays at 160F?

By the way: 160F is the correct pasteurization temp, right? Or is there a temp that's more ideal?

Thanks so much


--------------------
Life is one big road with lots of signs,
So when you're ridin' through the ruts,
Don't you complicate your mind.

Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy
Don't bury your thoughts,
Put your vision to reality, yeah!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7575871 -

Quote:
It's highly reliable, but a major pain in the ass


WTF is a pain in the ass about it? First, the substrate/casing is heated to 140F, not 160F before the stove is shut off. Second, it's the easiest, least messy way to pasteurize home-grower amounts of substrate or casing material.

One thing that working 12 hour days in my day job, then coming home and trying to grow mushrooms, help out here, and do videos at the same time has taught me, is to use time wisely. I know of no quicker way to accurately maintain a temperature of 140F to 160F for one hour, then the method I teach.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7575881 -

well you dont want to PRESSURE COOK IT.. i use the pressure cooker cause its quite large and can hold up to around 10 lbs of substrate at a time.. which is enough for me, at least..

i posted a couple days ago not to use Oven Bags with water pasteurization.. last time i did it.. the bag melted somehow and i had a mess all over the kitchen... weak..

you can use mason jars, or order some nice autoclavable spawn bags to boil them in.. mind you.. 160-170 degrees is not boiling temperature so you have to get the settings just right. i use two thermometers.. one keeping track of the water temp, and the other keeping track of the center of the bag.

it still takes at least an hour to heat the inside of the bag for me.. my solution to that is put the pressure cooker lid on, dont tighten it, and leave the weight off.. that way steam can build. and steam, i think, penetrates substrate a lot more efficiently.

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: This guy]
    #7575889 -

Quote:
WTF is a pain in the ass about it?


Just the filling of each separate jar with spawn, and subsequently washing all those out. I often just hydrate with 160-165+ in an 8gal brew kettle, which retains the heat just fine for a few hours.

Quote:
last time i did it.. the bag melted somehow and i had a mess all over the kitchen... weak..


One might note that the bags are made for oven roasting turkeys at 400+ degrees. Don't expose it to bare flame next time.

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7575916 -

no flame exposed... bag was on a towel which was on a trivet... i know.. it didnt make sense to me either.

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7575922 -

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
It's highly reliable, but a major pain in the ass


WTF is a pain in the ass about it? First, the substrate/casing is heated to 140F, not 160F before the stove is shut off. Second, it's the easiest, least messy way to pasteurize home-grower amounts of substrate or casing material.

One thing that working 12 hour days in my day job, then coming home and trying to grow mushrooms, help out here, and do videos at the same time has taught me, is to use time wisely. I know of no quicker way to accurately maintain a temperature of 140F to 160F for one hour, then the method I teach.
RR



Wait, RR...is it possible to do this using a "rocker" pressure cooker with no gauge? How do you know what temp you're at when using the pressure cooker with no gauge? Do you just do a certain psi (5,10,15) for a certain amount of time? Thank you

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7575951 -

He boils it in the PC; he does not pressurize it.

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Re: Can't you just oven pasteurize at 160F in the oven? [Re: This guy]
    #7575956 -

This guy said:
well you dont want to PRESSURE COOK IT.. i use the pressure cooker cause its quite large and can hold up to around 10 lbs of substrate at a time.. which is enough for me, at least..

i posted a couple days ago not to use Oven Bags with water pasteurization.. last time i did it.. the bag melted somehow and i had a mess all over the kitchen... weak..

you can use mason jars, or order some nice autoclavable spawn bags to boil them in.. mind you.. 160-170 degrees is not boiling temperature so you have to get the settings just right. i use two thermometers.. one keeping track of the water temp, and the other keeping track of the center of the bag.

it still takes at least an hour to heat the inside of the bag for me.. my solution to that is put the pressure cooker lid on, dont tighten it, and leave the weight off.. that way steam can build. and steam, i think, penetrates substrate a lot more efficiently.



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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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