|
SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Listerine invented halitosis
#7558191 - 10/25/07 07:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
First formulated by Dr. Nicole Moir Lawrence and Christian Bonn in 1879 as a surgical antiseptic, it was given to dentists for oral care in 1895 and became the first over-the-counter mouthwash sold in the United States in 1914.
According to Freakonomics (p. 91),
Listerine was invented in the 19th century as a powerful surgical antiseptic. It was later sold, in a distilled form, as a floor cleaner and a cure for gonorrhea. But it wasn't a runaway success until the 1920s, when it was pitched as a solution for "chronic halitosis", the faux medical term that the Listerine advertising group created in 1921 to describe bad breath. By naming and thus creating a medical condition for which consumers now felt they needed a cure, Listerine created a market for their mouthwash. Until that time, bad breath was not conventionally considered a catastrophe, but Listerine's ad campaign changed that. As the advertising scholar James B. Twitchell writes, "Listerine did not make mouthwash as much as it made halitosis." Listerine's new ads featured forlorn young women and men, eager for marriage but turned off by their mate's rotten breath. "Can I be happy with him in spite of that?" one maiden asked herself. In just seven years, the company's revenues rose from $115,000 to more than $8 million.
meh, floor cleaner, cure for gonorrhea, makes your mouth feel clean... whatever, just buy it.
Quote:
From 1921 until the mid-1970s Listerine was also marketed as a preventive and remedy for colds and sore throats. In 1976, the Federal Trade Commission ruled that these claims were misleading, and that Listerine had "no efficacy" at either preventing or alleviating the symptoms of sore throats and colds. Warner-Lambert was ordered to stop making the claims, and to include in the next $10.2 million dollars' of Listerine ads a specific mention that "contrary to prior advertising, Listerine will not help prevent colds or sore throats or lessen their severity."
.... is it possible, that we could draw similarities between halitosis/listerine and things like ADD/ADHD/ritalin? is it possible that, just like humans have always had periods of what would (subjectively) be considered bad breath, children have always been prone to bouts of hyperactivity? or how children have always had bouts of spastic attention, as well as lack of interest in things like church, economics, curling? but, by giving it a name, especially one with a scientific ring to it, you can now "have it". see, before halitosis, there was just "bad breath"... it was the breath that was bad... not really an indication that there was in fact something wrong with the person. Kind of like how children are wired, spastic, hyperactive, instead of them having an "attention deficit". how do the doctors measure attention? especially in a 15 minute examination? How much attention does one need to have in order to have Par attention, how much do they need for extraordinary attention? which number is that? or maybe they broke it up into phases.
maybe they take measurements of the attention bone, and measure the levels of attention juice in our brains. it is a disorder of the attention. Im sorry to tell you this sir, but your child has an abnormal attention span... we measured it, and it didnt meet the length that we have arbitrarily deemed "normal". We had Ben Stein sing 99 bottle of beer on the wall, and your child only sang along until 91 bottles of beer. This is a very easy problem to solve. We have amphetamines. Yeah, you know how your wife gets on her diet pills and becomes really obsessed with cleaning the house..... same concept.
is it really a disorder for children to act like.... children? is it really a medical condition when you raise the bar of acceptable mouth odor?
what is going to be really funny, is when they come out for a medicine to cure Halitophobia... yes, fear of having bad breath.
Quote:
Some one quarter of the patients seeking professional advice on bad breath suffer from a highly exaggerated concern of having bad breath, known as halitophobia, delusional halitosis, or as a manifestation of Olfactory Reference Syndrome. These patients are sure that they have bad breath, although many have not asked anyone for an objective opinion. Halitophobia may severely affect the lives of some 0.5-1.0% of the adult population.[24] Only few psychologists and health professionals have tried to come to terms with this debilitating and difficult-to-treat emotional problem.
which could lead to a new drug marketed to those with Olfactory Reference Syndrome.
Quote:
Olfactory Reference Syndrome (ORS) describes the psychiatric condition of being excessively concerned that one's body odor is foul or unpleasant. This disorder can be accompanied by shame, embarrassment, significant distress, avoidance behavior and social isolation
I often wonder if I show anxiety over the fact that somebody, somewhere is clipping their toenails in this world... if I could get my own syndrome/disease.
|
WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7558252 - 10/25/07 07:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|

I think that's pretty common. I'd bet pfizer coined "erectile dysfunction."
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
|
badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7558276 - 10/25/07 08:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
All areas of science evolve and change as we learn. That is the nature of science. We keep adding elements to the periodic table, models of atoms have changed etc. etc. Medical science is no different. In the early 80's men were presenting to the ER with otherwise "weird" diseases. We then associated these afflictions with lifestyle patterns (specifically, being homosexual) and called the disease G.R.I.D.S (gay related immune dieficiency syndrome), and we now know it as AIDS/HIV.
As our knowledge expands, so will our diagnoses of illness, and our criteria for such illnesses.
Listerine made up "chronic halitosis" but it is now known to be associate with several types of oral bacteria http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17670880&ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
It is certainly forseeable that we may some day have objective criteria for psychological disorders. As technology increases, so will our understanding of the human brain, and our ability to see physical, objective changes, and then associate these objective changes with objective behavioral criteria.
I think we have all seen very clear cases of psychotic individuals. Walk through any major city, you will see a lot of people who are not normal and quite simply, "crazy". I think it is foolish to sum up these behavioral symptoms as an individual having "internal strife", and "not having their life together", rather than saying they have an physiological basis for their disease.
Anytime someone has an extreme irrational fear of something (public places, bad breath etc.) it can be debilitating. Rather than laughing at them and telling them their problem doesn't exist, they shold be offered help, pharmacological or otherwise.
The bottom line is we do not have the resources available to help ALL of the excessively hyperactive children in the U.S. They disrupt classrooms, and are a drain on teachers. It would be great if we could give all of them all the "hand holding, touchy feely" attention they deserve, but this isn't the case. I would be all for kicking them out of school completely, however since we cannot do that, Ritalin seems to be the best treatment. I would be curious as to what you think the best course of action should be.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
Edited by badchad (10/25/07 08:12 AM)
|
RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall



Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#7558278 - 10/25/07 08:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I still like Listerine... Going to bed with a super clean mouth makes me happy!
But I totally agree with the ADHD thing... I believe it's 99% fake, with maybe 1% of the kids actually having a real "issue" with attention.
|
WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
|
|
Listerine makes my mouth taste gross after a while. I get that alcohol-mouth pastiness unless I drink a lot of water afterwords. I use it in the morning but not before bed.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
|
SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: badchad]
#7559974 - 10/25/07 05:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
badchad said: All areas of science evolve and change as we learn. That is the nature of science. We keep adding elements to the periodic table, models of atoms have changed etc. etc. Medical science is no different. In the early 80's men were presenting to the ER with otherwise "weird" diseases. We then associated these afflictions with lifestyle patterns (specifically, being homosexual) and called the disease G.R.I.D.S (gay related immune dieficiency syndrome), and we now know it as AIDS/HIV.
I think you are grossly missing the point here. First, I dont see how you can compare an objectively recognizable epidemic like HIV with a subjective diagnosis of bad breath and hyperactivity. Also, HIV is a relatively new disease. It has only been evident for, at most, 65 years. Odor causing bacteria in the mouth, and hyperactive children have been around since the dawn of man.
The Problem that I am addressing here is that corporations are instilling a false need in consumers for profit, by dramatizing the condition, and sometimes downright lying about it. By conditioning the public through advertising and by abusing the trust that is given to doctors through false or misleading testimonials. Can we agree that hyperactivity and bad breath are subjective? see, before listerine, bad breath wasnt some rampant problem, but through advertising and other means, they raised the bar on what is considered socially acceptable.... and in doing that, they effectively made it so that everyone had subpar breath. No ones breath smells fresh all day.... even the idea of what we deem fresh has been raised. Just like hyperactive children, we basically have raised the bar of "normalcy" that is beyond the reality of child behaviour. if we were to look at the criteria for ADD/ADHD: 1. Often fidgets with hands or feet, or squirms in seat (in adults, may be replaced by feelings of restlessness). 2. Often leaves seat in classroom or other situation where it is inappropriate. 3.Often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly. 4.Is often 'on the go' or often acts as if 'driven by a motor.' 5.Often talks excessively. 6.Often blurts out answers before questions have been completed 7. Often interrupts or intrudes on other (e.g. barges into conversations or games)
so, you show me a child that doesnt exhibit all of these "symptoms". What that is, is basically the definition of childhood behaviour. By telling parents that these qualities are "disruptive" and "abnormal" behaviour , we raise the bar of expectations for what a child should be like, which is beyond the scope of the reality of what children act like.
|
vaportrail
upandaway



Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 121
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7560750 - 10/25/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I agree, and I think the hole goes much deeper than we realize. I saw a commercial on TV the other day, advertising a pill for Restless Leg Syndrome. What a load of shit. It's so simple, people who sell health products do not want their customers to be healthy.
Come on Acid Reflux Disease? Irritable Bowel Syndrome? Gingivitis?
Just have a look at this: http://www.imshealth.com/ims/portal/front/articleC/0,2777,6599_3665_41336931,00.html
-------------------- and the hippos were boiled in their tanks
|
badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: vaportrail]
#7561890 - 10/26/07 06:03 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
YawningAnus said: Can we agree that hyperactivity and bad breath are subjective?
Sure.
But my point is this: As our scientific technology, and understanding of psychological disorders increases, so will our ability to objectively diagnose and treat them.
For instance, there are objective measures of attention and memory. We can objectively observe how long someone can track a dot on a computer screen. We can objectively determine how long a person can remember a particular piece of information. We can objectively assess a person's psychomoter performances with specific tasks. Further, objective measures of memory and attention are continuously being developed and implemented.
We can then take these (objective) measures, and survey millions of young children. Do this, and you will develop a normal, bell-shaped distribution of performance on these measures of attention and memory.
By definition, you will be able to statistically, and objectively define what is "normal", and what is not.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
|
SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: badchad]
#7563745 - 10/26/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
but until then, we are ok giving children schedule 2 drugs?
I still emphatically say that you cannot objectively measure general attention. Sure, we can take thousands of kids and test how much attention they have with some individual subject, but you will never be able to make a general, objective assessment. Take any number of a group of 8 year old boys and see what they are more captivated by: A documentary on huge construction vehicles, like asphalt eaters and trains and whatnot, and then a documentary on the stock market.... see which one they have more "attention" for, as well as retain more information of.
|
SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7563766 - 10/26/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
and even if there is some way to objectively measure and assess if someone has subpar "Attention".... it still doesnt prove that it is a genetic, or biological problem. So, IOW, it is extremely unethical for us to be even giving children amphetamine derivatives with no objective diagnosis for attention, as well as having nothing zero proof that it is a biological problem.
|
LiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK


Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7563833 - 10/26/07 04:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
There's definitely a spectrum of subjective and objective disease, which becomes more "cloudy" with psychiatric disorders.
There are many disorders which are, as you said, pretty much "made up" through basic activities which weren't previously considered etiology for psychiatric disorders.
Social Anxiety Disorder, "alcoholism", ADHD...
It's funny because there was even an attempt by the psychiatric community to label Video Game addiction as a psychiatric disorder.
There's also alot of disorders which the link between objective evidence and subjective indications becomes more realisitc.
Aspergur's comes to mind. Many less-severe forms of mental disorders.
And there's also alot of phyciatric disorders which have been found to have stronger evidence for physiological deficiencies.
Alzheimer's Dementia, along with a wide array of neuro-degenerative causatives.
I understand just how and why alot of what goes on in psychiatric pharmaceuticals and psychiatric medicine is clearly immorral, and prioritize income over patient well-being.
But it's also important to recognize just how primitive psychiatric medicine is. There's definitely alot of issues with Dx's, and finding objectivity with something that is primarily diagnosed through subjective information.
Although there have been some very important strides in advancing psychiatric medicine, one being the differential diagnosis of dementia vs delirium. Alot of the Dx's found under these classes of disorders have been confirmed to follow the described path of the disease (i.e. insidious vs acute onset, degenerative vs variable).
There's a good lecture in medical school which devotes itself to the difficulties and challenges involved with the process of psychiatric diagnosis...lemme see if i can dig it out for you.
-------------------- "Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers. Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts. Who smokes tha blunts? We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back
|
SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: LiquidSmoke]
#7563901 - 10/26/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
That would be great.
when I was in college I would go sit in on some more advanced psych classes to see exactly what was said.... and one thing that bothered me is that my psych 101 class, something almost everyone takes, starts out with emphatically stating that mental disorders are biological. Now, I will concede that there are certain mental disorders that have a biological cause, such as Alzheimers.... but how can they go about stating this as fact when there is no proof otherwise for a huge chunk of mental disorders? I dont want to say that it is solely a self preservation mechanism that is in place by telling students this lie, but an eyebrow does have to be raised when you realize that the entire field of psychology and psychiatry would become almost nonexistent if "modern medicine" (with regards to psychiatry) wasnt forged in this belief.
it seems to me that psychiatry made up its mind a long time ago, and has struggled ever since, to prove their initial hypothesis... all the while ignoring, or at times, working against any other theories which might prove the fundamental theory that psychiatry was built upon to be false.
I find certain "facts" in psychiatric papers which are void of logic because they are blinded by their initial hypothesis. For example, I will see something like "Children whose mothers smoked during pregnancy are X% more likely to exhibit symptoms of ADHD"... and then they jump to the conclusion that smoking cigarettes during pregnancy is some cause for a biological mishap in the growing fetus which causes ADHD.... all the while, never even thinking about the type of mother that smokes cigs during pregnancy (in the face of overwhelming evidence that it is extremely unhealthy), is most likely an overall shitty parent who probably takes very little effort to spend time, or even attempt to control their child, and thus conditioning (through omission) the child to act a certain way.
It seems that every single paper I read regarding psychiatric studies has this inherent flaw of doing the study to prove their hypothesis, rather than really trying to evaluate the given data.
|
LiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK


Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 6 months, 26 days
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7564015 - 10/26/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
YawningAnus said: That would be great.
when I was in college I would go sit in on some more advanced psych classes to see exactly what was said.... and one thing that bothered me is that my psych 101 class, something almost everyone takes, starts out with emphatically stating that mental disorders are biological.
Wow, that is pretty damn absurd on the professor's part. Incredibly biased lecture if something that like was really taught.
Quote:
Now, I will concede that there are certain mental disorders that have a biological cause, such as Alzheimers.... but how can they go about stating this as fact when there is no proof otherwise for a huge chunk of mental disorders? I dont want to say that it is solely a self preservation mechanism that is in place by telling students this lie, but an eyebrow does have to be raised when you realize that the entire field of psychology and psychiatry would become almost nonexistent if "modern medicine" (with regards to psychiatry) wasnt forged in this belief.
I agree with this completely, but it should also be mentioned that, alot of the etiologies of psychiatric disorders are based on physiological "theory", meaning they really don't know if it's directly involved, but various studies indicate that direction.
Basically, the evidence is there, but it's definitely not close to complete.
Quote:
it seems to me that psychiatry made up its mind a long time ago, and has struggled ever since, to prove their initial hypothesis... all the while ignoring, or at times, working against any other theories which might prove the fundamental theory that psychiatry was built upon to be false.
I find certain "facts" in psychiatric papers which are void of logic because they are blinded by their initial hypothesis. For example, I will see something like "Children whose mothers smoked during pregnancy are X% more likely to exhibit symptoms of ADHD"... and then they jump to the conclusion that smoking cigarettes during pregnancy is some cause for a biological mishap in the growing fetus which causes ADHD.... all the while, never even thinking about the type of mother that smokes cigs during pregnancy (in the face of overwhelming evidence that it is extremely unhealthy), is most likely an overall shitty parent who probably takes very little effort to spend time, or even attempt to control their child, and thus conditioning (through omission) the child to act a certain way.
That's definitely a huge issue, and something that's constantly in debate. It's always shaky to even base studies off of psychiatric disorders which haven't even been confirmed of a solid differential diagnosis (like ADHD). Which is why psychiatric studies, amongst all, have really been looked at more skeptically than in any other field.
And it should be that way.
-------------------- "Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers. Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts. Who smokes tha blunts? We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back
|
MK Ultra
Stranger

Registered: 09/15/07
Posts: 70
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
|
Re: Listerine invented halitosis [Re: LiquidSmoke]
#7568749 - 10/28/07 04:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Restless Legs Syndrome, PMDD, erectile dysfunction, and other such conditions may be real on some level and for a certain population, but the EXTENT to which they're dramatized as serious dysfunctional states of being that can be combatted by taking medication is where the dishonesty comes in.
I may have twitchy muscles in my legs and racing thoughts that make my legs wanna jerk around when I lay down at night, but that's not a disease, disorder, or illness...it's a symptom. Whether it's a symptom of anxiety, restlessness, eating something I shouldn't have, or whatever, it's nothing more than a sign that there's an underlying issue going on. The same with ED...while it's true that plenty of older men can't get it up as often as they'd like and on cue, that's just a symptom of a deeper issue, either physiologically (insufficient blood flow to the penis) or psychologically (other things on my mind, not attracted to the wife, etc.) or both.
So what's the problem with this picture? The main issue is that many of these medications, while marketed on billboards, in magazines, and on television alongside the return of the McRib, are perceived as if they were no more serious than buying a new pair of loafers or driving a Prius. Sadly, that's not the case. Most drugs have side effects and many have withdrawal effects (SSRIs, etc.) ranging from decreased libido to seizures to LYMPHOMA (Humira, an anti-RA drug). While it's true that they must announce the potential for these reactions, encouraging patients to "talk to their doctor about ________ drug" just doesn't always prevent them. Many doctors don't warn of the risks, patients sometimes fail to inform the dr. of everything they're taking (whether by accident or on purpose, for fear of getting "busted"), and sometimes there are factors at play that neither the patient nor the dr. could know about, such as undiagnosed conditions. The risks are greater than many people realize and occur more frequently than the general population probably believes.
Another immoral element to the pushing of drugs onto the world is the "fear factor". Many people live in a state of constant fear and anxiety about the possible diseases they could catch or already have. I know people who are complete hypochondriacs, and the health and medication-related advertisements spewing oversimplified "symptoms" of complex disorders like fibromyalgia and bipolar disorder don't help. If these issues were kept more in the hands of qualified professionals and discussed as private, case-by-case situations between docs and patients, maybe there wouldn't be so many germophobes who feel the need to Lysol and Clorox everything in the house daily, which carries many risks in and of itself.
Finally, my main qualm with the commercialization of prescription medications is the double standard it carries. Everyday, thousands of people in the U.S. and the world are sentenced to jail and prison time for nonviolent drug offenses or killed by unscrupulous dealers of street drugs. Meanwhile, drug companies are getting rich beyond our wildest dreams selling substances that are, in many cases, far more detrimental to society and health than are the illegal drugs. Without Benzedrine, there would be no crystal meth. In fact, nearly ALL the well known illegal drugs "plaguing our society" today were the wonder drugs of yesterday, marketed as cure alls by the drug companies. Now people are forced to spend years of their lives in a cage for using substances that were not only legal in the past, but were pushed on every Tom, Dick and Harry that walked into the drs office with a headache. Did you know that 51% of anti-drug campaign money is spent on ads demonizing marijuana, one of the safest substances known to man? Did you also know that, when you hear that your favorite political candidate is receiving money from the drug companies, they are using some of that money to further the War on Drugs at the request of the drug companies, who would lose billions if such drugs were to be legalized?
The bottom line: Pharmaceutical companies are THE single largest, most insidious drug pushers on the planet...
...and growing.
|
|