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Uncertainty
    #7550333 -

Here's an advantage with uncertainty, and I think it's a big one. Acknowledging uncertainty gives one the ability to keep exploring everything. Nothing to defend or get stuck in. Once you believe something is true the tendency is to rest in that belief and put ones efforts into defending it and shoring up any indefensible aspects of that belief rather than continuing exploration.

The problem with uncertainty is that it often creates anxiety in the human psyche. That is why, IMO, one must endeavor to be courageous over and over again. That is why so few humans embrace the reality of uncertainty. Yet for all those who hope for some kind of eventual maturity of humanity into a more peaceful and wise species, I believe it is critical.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Icelander]
    #7550357 -

I haven't a clue what you are trying to transmit. :wink:


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Re: Uncertainty [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7550365 -

It doesn't matter. You are not a serious poster here anyway. Next.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Icelander]
    #7550382 -

If I were certain of your message, would that mean that I DID or DID NOT understand?


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Re: Uncertainty [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7550388 -

It doesn't matter. You are not a serious poster here anyway. Next.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Icelander]
    #7550493 -

I don't subscribe to the idea that humanity will ever mature or 'evolve'. We are a species that consists mostly of disgusting, selfish, ignorant, and hateful people. All of us have it, just to lesser extents from time to time.

If humanity was truly progressing, Road Construction would have stopped happening 2-3 decades ago. Try coming to West Michigan in the summer. Mankind is not getting any better.


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“Why does Hello Kitty drive us to kill? Is it the cute little bow or the dead, soulless eyes?”

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Icelander]
    #7550514 -

So Shmoopy says to this hoser
"Respond, don't be a such a poseur!"

If you are uncertain
We'll pull down the curtain

And to the truth we shall get no closer.


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Re: Uncertainty [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7550529 -

Truth? You want to see truth? I don't have to show you no fucking truth! :butthead:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Tsion]
    #7550535 -

Tsion said:
I don't subscribe to the idea that humanity will ever mature or 'evolve'.  We are a species that consists mostly of disgusting, selfish,  ignorant, and hateful people.  All of us have it, just to lesser extents from time to time.

If humanity was truly progressing, Road Construction would have stopped happening 2-3 decades ago.  Try coming to West Michigan in the summer.  Mankind is not getting any better.


Wow, You have a more nasty cynical attitude than the Icelander.:whoa: But not by much.:lol:

By the way. I grew up in Grand Rapids.:tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/23/07 01:38 PM)

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Icelander]
    #7550543 -

Icelander said:
Truth? You want to see truth? I don't have to show you no fucking truth! :butthead:


Here's a hanky. Please wipe the spittle and foam from your mouth.


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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Icelander]
    #7550769 -

Icelander said:
Wow, You have a more nasty cynical attitude than the Icelander.:whoa: But not by much.:lol:

By the way. I grew up in Grand Rapids.:tongue:


Haha, awesome.  I live in Grandville, off of 44th St.

I wouldn't call myself a cynic, so much as I think humanistic idea's are among the most flawed the world has ever seen - because everything bad (besides natural disasters) that has ever happened was caused by people like ourselves.

Never been to Iceland.  How is it?


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“Why does Hello Kitty drive us to kill? Is it the cute little bow or the dead, soulless eyes?”

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Tsion]
    #7550835 -

Iceland sucks. That's why I live in Oregon.:lol:

You must be careful here. I was very sweet and accepting before I came here. But then I saw what the enlightened psychedelic users were saying about the drivel they call cosmic truth and enlightenment. I became depressed and then angry. I gave up any hope for humanity. Now I am just like Swami. A bitter old man. The only difference is I have a young girlfriend and he lives alone with his goldfish.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/23/07 03:16 PM)

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Icelander]
    #7551025 -

Ok so regarding the actual topic at hand, I agree with your views in some ways.

Here is the thing though. Where does courage end and stupidity and loneliness begin?

Because even if one accepts the beauty, tranquility and possibilities of such an approach and doesnt have the anxiety you speak of (or HAS as you say the courage), then there is still THE REST OF THE HUMAN RACE to deal with.

I speak from experience, and I can quite quite confidently say that the anxiety caused it less for the person embracing the approach and more for the people who love and care for them and also the others they meet in their life.

I think they can be misconstrued as a "confused" individual who doesnt know what they want and doesnt know what they believe.

At some point everyone will leave them and just say fuckit this guy has no clue what he is doing coz he so uncertain all the time. I just lost my girlfriend of ten years due to this approach and love of exploration and learning. And who knows how many other people I truly care about and who care for me I will lose in pursuit of my "eventual maturity".

I think Im there. Its ok to speak it, different to DO it.

Although Im not as pessimistic as Tsion on humanity as a species (we have the Shroomery to prove there is still some hope!), I must say that the entire approach of an uncertain, ungrasping, Taoist sort of mentality could be ok if you either:

1:shit money
2:are a hermit
3:are neither but wouldnt care if the world went to shit coz you have survival skills Rambo style!

However, some of us need to live, eat and sleep under a roof for the time being, and that means living (usually) around other human beings.

Makes it hard when you are left alone because you are "uncertain".

So I reiterate, where is the line?


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Wilderness. It defines me.

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: gmuralid]
    #7551508 -

I try to maintain a sense of uncertainty about everything I see... I learned when I was very young that it's easy to make assumptions, but 99% of the time they will cloud your judgment and your perspective. There are simply too many "blank-spots" of data in our world-views for the human mind to reliably fill in, so a solid perspective of uncertainty is the cleanest and most logical way of collecting useful information without making rash decisions.

Care must be taken in reacting to uncertain situations with a level head. It is easy to cringe away in fear (an old pastime of religious fundamentalists), or to carelessly leap in, assuming the best will come of it (as we see quite often in scientists).

I think that when it comes down to it, certainty of anything is an illusion.

Edited by Tchan909 (10/23/07 09:23 PM)

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7552325 -

they say that OCD is the doubting disease
surfing uncertainty is something one can do while letting go of obsessive tendencies.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7552424 -

Thanks for reminding me - time to wash my hands again... :tongue:


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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Icelander]
    #7552572 -

Icelander said:
You must be careful here. I was very sweet and accepting before I came here. But then I saw what the enlightened psychedelic users were saying about the drivel they call cosmic truth and enlightenment. I became depressed and then angry. I gave up any hope for humanity. 


Your problem was thinking that psychedelic drugs somehow magically transform people into much better people than they initially were. There are awesome critical thinkers scattered throughout any kind of of scene one can imagine, but there are just as many fakes and flakes. It's just as easy (probably easier) to become a nutjob on drugs as it is to be inspired to do the work necessary to grow.


Quote:
Now I am just like Swami. A bitter old man. The only difference is I have a young girlfriend and he lives alone with his goldfish.


:lol:

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: Icelander]
    #7552757 -

Icelander said:
You must be careful here. I was very sweet and accepting before I came here. But then I saw what the enlightened psychedelic users were saying about the drivel they call cosmic truth and enlightenment. I became depressed and then angry. I gave up any hope for humanity. Now I am just like Swami. A bitter old man. The only difference is I have a young girlfriend and he lives alone with his goldfish.


As a legal counsel for the Shroomery, I would like to inform you that this forum is for entertainment purposes only. You obviously have not been using it correctly. Therefore, any litigation directed our way will quickly be shot down by a judge and our staff will arrive at your residence and smother you to death with patchouli.

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Re: Uncertainty [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7552903 -

'Acknowledging uncertainty gives one the ability to keep exploring everything.'

:thumbup:


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Re: Uncertainty [Re: gmuralid]
    #7554835 -

gmuralid said:
Ok so regarding the actual topic at hand, I agree with your views in some ways.

Here is the thing though. Where does courage end and stupidity and loneliness begin?

Because even if one accepts the beauty, tranquility and possibilities of such an approach and doesnt have the anxiety you speak of (or HAS as you say the courage), then there is still THE REST OF THE HUMAN RACE to deal with.

I speak from experience, and I can quite quite confidently say that the anxiety caused it less for the person embracing the approach and more for the people who love and care for them and also the others they meet in their life.

I think they can be misconstrued as a "confused" individual who doesnt know what they want and doesnt know what they believe.

At some point everyone will leave them and just say fuckit this guy has no clue what he is doing coz he so uncertain all the time. I just lost my girlfriend of ten years due to this approach and love of exploration and learning. And who knows how many other people I truly care about and who care for me I will lose in pursuit of my "eventual maturity".

I think Im there. Its ok to speak it, different to DO it.

Although Im not as pessimistic as Tsion on humanity as a species (we have the Shroomery to prove there is still some hope!), I must say that the entire approach of an uncertain, ungrasping, Taoist sort of mentality could be ok if you either:

1:shit money
2:are a hermit
3:are neither but wouldnt care if the world went to shit coz you have survival skills Rambo style!

However, some of us need to live, eat and sleep under a roof for the time being, and that means living (usually) around other human beings.

Makes it hard when you are left alone because you are "uncertain".

So I reiterate, where is the line?


Just because one is uncertain that does not mean one is undecided. I have many beliefs that I act on that I am ultimately uncertain of. I always go with what I honestly know is a best guess.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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