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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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I want freedom.
    #7471684 -

"The illusion of freedom is that it is getting away from things you don't like. I believe that freedom is working with what is."

I can totally agree with this. The only freedom you will ever really experience IMO is psychological freedom.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #7471690 -

what about burning my moms bras?

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Alion]
    #7471692 -

What about it? :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7471705 -

I, I jus.. I just feel so free

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #7471709 -

Agreed. I think psychological freedom is complete freedom, not in a real physical sense, but in the sense that the physical doesn't cause the psychological pain associated with not having freedom, and that's what people are going for anyways when searching for freedom. Man that was confusing.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Alion]
    #7471719 -

Alion said:
I, I jus.. I just feel so free


I suggest you take them off before the burning. Also I hope you asked permission from your mom before you put them on.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Alion]
    #7471725 -

Alion said:
I, I jus.. I just feel so free


Whatever floats your boat dude. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #7471728 -

Icelander said:
Alion said:
I, I jus.. I just feel so free


I suggest you take them off before the burning. Also I hope you asked permission from your mom before you put them on.


:rofl2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7471729 -

jonathanseagull said:
not in a real physical sense,


that's exactly what hes saying

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Alion]
    #7471734 -

Alion said:
jonathanseagull said:
not in a real physical sense,


that's exactly what hes saying


He wasn't trying to contradict the OP. :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #7471736 -

Icelander said:
Alion said:
I, I jus.. I just feel so free


I suggest you take them off before the burning. Also I hope you asked permission from your mom before you put them on.


Ofcourse! she always lets me run around liberating myself!

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Alion]
    #7471737 -

Sounds like a fun Mater. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7471743 -

MushroomTrip said:
Alion said:
jonathanseagull said:
not in a real physical sense,


that's exactly what hes saying


He wasn't trying to contradict the OP. :smirk:


neither was I trying to, to Jon...;)

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7471744 -

true freedom is being by yourself and not worrying about anything or anybody so unless your totally fucked up out your mind you really don't have freedom


--------------------

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: ajdaak]
    #7471762 -

Which is the opposite of the quote I posted. Good luck with all that.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #7471950 -

is death not the only true freedom (at least as we think of everything in a physical manner)?


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: demiu5]
    #7472046 -

In the physical, sense as far as we know, that is true.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #7472080 -

lol

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: Icelander]
    #7472107 -

Well, there are many types and experiences of freedoms...

There is the essential, existential freedom - the realization that one has the power to choose regardless of conditions - which is what I think you are talking about when you say psychological freedom.

But then there is the physical, tangible world which includes all sorts of repressions, supressions, laws and borders that are very real factors in binding us. Much of this works on a psychological level, working both overtly and covertly to manipulate people into behaving in certain ways and wanting certain things. It also works on a physical level - through the utilization of violence or threat thereof. The 'repressive state apparatus' including police, judicial systems, national borders and the military all serve to not only represent order, but to see to it that any threat diversion from acceptable, non-threatening acceptance of the status quo is eliminated. The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove are utilized simultaneously to prevent any experimentation outside of acceptable realms. Experiencing existential freedom requires that one become aware of and see through this veil, and often (although not always) drives one to attempt to break through it, for themselves and to inspire others to do the same.

Yes, we are 'existentially free' in that, no matter what, we are still capable of resisting the current, taking a leap and choosing against all manipulations that attempt to bind. For me, this realization of existential freedom has driven me to both tear apart my socialization and work on psychological issues as well as a pursuit of broadened freedoms in the external world, to the goal of (and action towards) attacking and dissolving repressive institutions. I feel that the goal of an ever expansive, tangible freedom is the logical extension of recognizing my existential freedom.


As for this:
"The illusion of freedom is that it is getting away from things you don't like. I believe that freedom is working with what is."

I don't really agree with it. There is freedom from as well as freedom to or towards. This quote forgets that. The pursuit of freedom from can be a part of freedom towards, but it can also be the very drive that enslaves us - it can become the pursuit of security which justifies the diminishment of experienced freedoms. Freedom towards is expansive, it begins with the realization of existential freedom, and then is a process of recognizing tangible conditions and contexts, working through 'what is' towards 'what may be' or 'what is desired.'

Edited by NiamhNyx (09/30/07 09:44 PM)

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Re: I want freedom. [Re: demiu5]
    #7472182 -

I love that freedom is a recurring topic around here...

When I hear "freedom".... I think many things, but one of the main things is expanded awareness.

In "America", the concept of freedom means different things to everyone, but most will agree that they are "more free" than a lot of others around the world. That kind of statement comes from a purely materialistic viewpoint and does not consider consciousness at all. Well there's the bit about freedom of speech and religion and all that, but by now such ideas have become mere buzzwords used most often by those with no real understanding of what they are talking about.
I will venture to say that we don't even really know what consciousness is. We have become mindless clerks, merely employees of The Brain, filing away little bits into their proper filing cabinet. We don't even question how the files became organized the way they are, or who it is that might be generating all this information we are receiving and filing. We just scan it, and plop it into its proper category for storage, to be regurgitated when called upon.

People cry out about wanting freedom from tyrants and maniacal oligarchy, but refuse to examine the invisible tyrant and dictator behind their own eyes. I see a trend in society of people accepting declarations of their personal freedom from an outside source, almost as if it were rations from an aid organization...
I think it is easier that way. (Easier does not mean better.)
It is easier, in terms of establishing a sense of one's freedom, to have someone say to you in an authoritative manner: "YOU ARE FREE", than it is to really ask yourself "Am I free?" , and to open your eyes wide enough to begin to see an answer.

Instead it's "Ok little cog, let's grease you up with some freedom so you can run along and be a good little cog in the machine." And it feels Oh So Good to be slathered with that luscious, lubricious Freedom! With no worries about tyrants taking away your Freedom! ... Well there's those brown skinned extremists... but somehow Big Daddy will take care of them. The Sword of Freedom is mighty!

Those thoughts programmed in consciousness smother us and prevent us from seeing clearly. They encase us with a protective layer, shielding us from the harsh, crushing reality of the grinding gears.
The freedom I was taught by my supposed "authorities" was little more than a pack of lies.
Quote:
"Freedom from freedom is not freedom." - Michael Tsarion


Edited by Clean (09/30/07 10:27 PM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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