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Offlinegmuralid
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A question of strains? Introduction in non-native habitats- science pls
    #7307440 - 08/18/07 01:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, so one of my friends has sent me some spores to propogate.

My quandary - Before I decide to grow anything, I want to know this.

Is there any issue with introducing non-native strains into a certain habitat? Are there any serious papers dealing with competitive strategies and species competition or strain compositions changing?

I dont want to just jump in and have a non-local strain come in and change the genetic composition of local strains, before we even know what is out there around the Mumbai region, or Western coast of India anywhere near where I live. I know the Southern Western Ghats have been well documented, but no information from my area, and nothing known about local strains here.

Im an ecological designer, so I understand some of these issues well with invasive species, but I dont know how it works with mushroom species. I believe nature has enough knowledge and the systems in place to fix issues like this, ecological time scales though, just not fast enough for the human time scale and thats why "conservationists" feel they need to DO something. Anyhoo, thats aside from the point.

Just my thoughts, but I need to know what you guys think. Any ideas, comments, something, anything??!!


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: A question of strains? Introduction in non-native habitats- science pls [Re: gmuralid]
    #7307681 - 08/18/07 03:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't have any references to papers to help you with, but consider this: if it's perfectly possible to cultivate ps. cubensis in non-natural habitats such as closets and tubs, I suppose the non-native strain-issue won't be much of an issue really.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: A question of strains? Introduction in non-native habitats- science pls [Re: gmuralid]
    #7307811 - 08/18/07 04:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I am unclear.

Species and "strains" are two separate concepts. Which do you mean? If you are asking about "strains", what species does this refer to? Psilocybe cubensis?

Personally, I am all for introduction of non-native Psilocybe, however, that is not to say I think there is no ecological risk.


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: A question of strains? Introduction in non-native habitats- science pls [Re: gmuralid]
    #7308046 - 08/18/07 05:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I seriously doubt there would be any significant risk introducing an exotic saprophyte to most healthy ecosystems... Now if you were talking about introducing a parasitic species it would be a different story but if you are just talking about Psilocybe and not something like Armillaria, everything should be fine.
I'm unaware of any official paper or journal entries regarding this subject specifically, however you might want to check out Mycelium running by Paul Stamets.

CureCat said:
Quote:


Personally, I am all for introduction of non-native Psilocybe



In total agreement :crazy2:


Edited by georgeM (08/18/07 05:53 PM)


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OfflinePinheadX
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Re: A question of strains? Introduction in non-native habitats- science pls [Re: georgeM]
    #7308329 - 08/18/07 08:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

as far as a non-native "strain" goes, I don't believe you could affect the ecosystem by introduction, as long as the species itself is native. Differing strains of some species are introduced in the wild all the time, as the spores are carried on the wind, sometimes for many miles.


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If you want to find psilocybin in species that are not yet known to be psychoactive, you should do chemical tests. That way you won't get sick and die all the time.
- Alan Rockefeller

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
- Philip K. Dick


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Offlinegmuralid
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Re: A question of strains? Introduction in non-native habitats- science pls [Re: georgeM]
    #7308334 - 08/18/07 08:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the answers. I guess the tubs and cupboard thing makes sense.

Cat: Maybe I was unclear? Let me explain.

Species: What I saying is, what is the risk (Exactly the word I was looking for, thanks), if any, of introducing a speciesthat we dont know exists here, eg: Introduction of P. Mexicana in India. Personally I dont have any issues with this either, ethically speaking, just raising the question for any scientific minds interested in speaking about it. Interspecific competition, on second thought, was probably a dumb question, coz we have enough cow dung here to feed the world's saprophyte population.

Strains: What Im saying with this is - Yes, lets use P. cubensis as the example, since it is a highly probably candidate for being around my area. Then lets say I introduce a cubensis strain from Burma, Cambodia, or the U.S. My question was focussed on what the possible impacts could be from such an introduction, on strain diversity, chemical makeup, fruiting characteristics etc etc.

I have a glimpse from Alan and you guys, but want to really get some heads scrathing so I can get deeper on this one.

I believe it is highly unlikely that anything will happen except a new species or new strain will suddenly be around (Not that anyone here would notice, except maybe Puneshroomer). I just want to know what you guys think would, or could, happen. What you want to happen in mostly besides the point.

Thanks for what you guys had for me up to now. Good to get ideas and thoughts on this.


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OfflinePinheadX
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Re: A question of strains? Introduction in non-native habitats- science pls [Re: gmuralid]
    #7308353 - 08/18/07 08:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

just for clarification, I believe saprophytic is dead/decaying leaves and grass and the like. Coprophytic is dung loving.


--------------------
If you want to find psilocybin in species that are not yet known to be psychoactive, you should do chemical tests. That way you won't get sick and die all the time.
- Alan Rockefeller

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
- Philip K. Dick


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OfflinePinheadX
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Re: A question of strains? Introduction in non-native habitats- science pls [Re: PinheadX]
    #7308411 - 08/18/07 08:49 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I am under the impression that if you mix two strains of spores in a substrate, only one strain will win out. They don't mate, so I believe that it will have little to no impact on native strains. Other than possibly being more prolific than the native strains... but that's not necessarily a bad thing.


--------------------
If you want to find psilocybin in species that are not yet known to be psychoactive, you should do chemical tests. That way you won't get sick and die all the time.
- Alan Rockefeller

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
- Philip K. Dick


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Offlinegmuralid
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Re: A question of strains? Introduction in non-native habitats- science pls [Re: PinheadX]
    #7314144 - 08/20/07 02:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

X Thanks for the clarification. My bad.


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Invisiblecactu
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Re: A question of strains? Introduction in non-native habitats- science pls [Re: gmuralid]
    #7314252 - 08/20/07 02:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

the introduction of any specie to the non native habitad can let some consecuences that can be bad or good, is dificult to asurre wish one but i also depend on what type of specie you like to introduce , for example, you could have a strain of a specie already exist in your are for let say cubensis and you in troduce a strain of cubensis ,weell this spores can go to the wild and in some years found cubensis witht this caracteristic in your area and the one you introduce this strain can desplace the other because is more agressive etc, can change quimical mix up too make it more active or lees , who said genetic is not a factor of potency, or they can combinate make a hybrid very unlikely in nature but can work this can let to a good adaptacion, and few changes , but reaaly doub to be a problen if you cultivate then and cut then before they spread spores after all their are more potend like this,
and also i alwasy take mushrooms from here to there so there can be every where i have seen they can coexist in same enviroment , but it all depend a dung lover would not be a problem , after all they grow in you area , if you introduce a new specie is something else , like mexicana, can displace others that no grow on dung , or produce lees spores, but will be grait to fund azurences in the snow here by the popoacatepelt and few cyanences in winter when here no other appear the few rains that come in this day can meke then fruit some times . , but we introduce many strain to all the world some time did´t even know about, spores in the shirts,the interchange of spores to other countrys,also caryy other mushroom spores too, but look what happend in australia in pine plantacion, also in chile in pine plantantion , well new psilocybe appears. this time was o good thingh i guees .. but clearly the introduction came with the seed of pine they must have spores of psilocybe from mexico a developed a new race when they adap to a diferent enviroment , nature always try to equilibrate things


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