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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Decisional and Baptismal Regeneration
    #7086314 -

Most so-called "Christian" churches today teach a doctrine known as decisional regeneration. This teaching states that man must perform certain actions in order to become regenerate, which is also known as the new birth. The formula usually goes something like this:

1. Admit you are a sinner.
2. Ask Jesus into your heart.
3. Make Jesus your Lord.

Assurance of salvation is based on the sincere performance of the above acts. Sincere religious acts, according to them, are the merit that obtains the new birth. This turns the entire gospel upside down, transforming it into a new law with lesser conditions. Grace is turned into reward. Justification is by the law. This is impossible and anyone who believes it is unregenerate.


Many churches teach a doctrine known as baptismal regeneration. It teaches that water baptism regenerates. Other "sacraments" of the church combined with personal efforts also are required to constantly recleanse yourself. Of coarse the church performing this usually claims to be the only "official" body that is authorized to carry out these tasks. So your salvation is directly hinged on your church, for without it you have no sacraments, and without sacraments you have no salvation.

Both these teachings deny the fundamental fact that Christ's imputed righteousness alone is the sole way for a person to be righteous before God. Christ's work can not be added to, for it is perfect. Sincere religious effort does not "activate" anything. Sinners have no merits, they have no "sincere religious acts", and they have no buying power with God. They are spiritually dead and blind. They are at the mercy of God alone for salvation. Until God brings them to repent of these dead religious acts they are not regenerate. Gospel repentance is turning from everything you thought gained you favor with God, and looking to Christ's righteousness alone for right standing with God.

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Re: Decisional and Baptismal Regeneration [Re: fivepointer]
    #7104154 -

In an 'expanding' universe I think there can be multiple avenues of righteousness before God.

For instance there could be a Jewish Heaven as well as a Catholic or Protestant Heaven, and an Amish Heaven. What do you suppose an Atheist Heaven resembles?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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Re: Decisional and Baptismal Regeneration [Re: Booby]
    #7110216 -

Booby said:
In an 'expanding' universe I think there can be multiple avenues of righteousness before God.

For instance there could be a Jewish Heaven as well as a Catholic or Protestant Heaven, and an Amish Heaven. What do you suppose an Atheist Heaven resembles?


It doesn't resemble anything since it doesn't exist.

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Re: Decisional and Baptismal Regeneration [Re: fivepointer]
    #7110221 -

Well, the Bible is pretty clear about baptism being necessary for salvation. Other sacraments also have strong textual support, some less so.

You act like you have some kind of gnosis about what the gospel is but all those church people who gave you the Gospel must be wrong. Gnostics... meh.

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Re: Decisional and Baptismal Regeneration [Re: shroomydan]
    #7110367 -

shroomydan said:
Well, the Bible is pretty clear about baptism being necessary for salvation. Other sacraments also have strong textual support, some less so.

You act like you have some kind of gnosis about what the gospel is but all those church people who gave you the Gospel must be wrong. Gnostics... meh.


The kind of baptism necessary is of the Holy Spirit, not of physical water. The Holy Spirit MUST indwell the believer or they are not regenerate.

I am not a “Gnostic Christian”. Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone apart from human merits.

If certain physical acts are requirements of salvation, who then is certified to carry out these "sacraments"? Can I baptize myself, or have someone I know do this to me? Are certain churches authorized and others not? Please define which ones are and are not.

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Re: Decisional and Baptismal Regeneration [Re: fivepointer]
    #7110750 -

If you are not getting your theories from some special gnosis, then were do you get them? The bible? And why is your interpretation correct where the bishops are wrong? Both you and the bishops have bibles.

Show me where in the bible it says no action is necessary on the part of the one being saved, and that sacramental baptism is not required. I seem to recall something about repentance being necessary for salvation, repentance being a human action.

Furthermore, Jesus says;

Quote:
Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

Jonh 3:5

Note the "and", Water and spirit.


To answer you question, anybody can baptize anybody else, but you cannot baptize your self.

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Re: Decisional and Baptismal Regeneration [Re: shroomydan]
    #7110915 -

If you are not getting your theories from some special gnosis, then were do you get them? The bible? And why is your interpretation correct where the bishops are wrong? Both you and the bishops have bibles.

I don't know what "bishops" you are referring to, but if they are teaching salvation by grace plus sacraments plus works they certainly are not teaching the gospel defined in the Bible and are bishops of a false church.

Show me where in the bible it says no action is necessary on the part of the one being saved, and that sacramental baptism is not required. I seem to recall something about repentance being necessary for salvation, repentance being a human action.

Furthermore, Jesus says;

Quote:
Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

Jonh 3:5

Note the "and", Water and spirit.


The term water is used to describe the Word of God in many places and the Holy Spirit in other places.

Eze 36:25-27
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Water is the Word:
Eph 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
The Word cleans and is like water.

Water is also the Holy Spirit:
Joh 7:38-9 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Ac 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Ac 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost washes, just as water baptism is a picture of this washing.

Without the grace of God you can not enter into the kingdom of God. This grace is by the Holy Spirit as it applies the Word and washes the sinner.

The notion that salvation is conditioned on human acts, such as water baptism, repentance, faith, whatever.. negates the entire gospel of grace. Salvation is contingent on Jesus Christ fulfilling every demand of justice and established a righteousness for His people. Christ alone has met all conditions for the salvation of His people, humans can't meet any conditions, they are sinners whose best works are filthy rags before a God who is Holy, Holy, Holy.

In the fullness of time His people will be converted by The Spirit applying the Word of God to them. Repentance, faith, ect. happen AS A RESULT OF the grace given to them, not the other way around.


To answer you question, anybody can baptize anybody else, but you cannot baptize your self.

Since this according to you is essential you better be sure about it. So a person could be converted, have the Holy Spirit, believe, repent, ect. and if they neglect this and die they are lost forever?

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Re: Decisional and Baptismal Regeneration [Re: fivepointer]
    #7113523 -

If you really want to have a theological discussion about this, I welcome it.

Are you familiar with the principle of charity?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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