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President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill
    #6858993 -

FOX NEWS is reporting the DEMS will drop the timeline from the bill after the President vetoes...


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6859034 -

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (06/05/16 09:51 PM)

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6859058 -

As a parent I would never send my children to war.

But they have a right to sign up for it....


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6859084 -

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (06/05/16 09:52 PM)

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6859095 -

yeah! yeah! damn the corporations and their greed! damn the politicians!

let's kill their children!

:smirk:

have you been attending the annapurna school of sounding like a moonbat?


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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6859119 -

But the soldiers who are there volunteered to go.

Are you saying we should send people who don’t want to be there????

Someone who isn’t committed???


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: wilshire]
    #6859130 -

Wilshire, Would you want a soldier watching your back who isn’t committed???


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6859132 -

Are you saying we should send people who don’t want to be there????

only if we disapprove of their parents' political beliefs or career choices.


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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: wilshire]
    #6859296 -

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (06/05/16 09:52 PM)

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: wilshire]
    #6859298 -

We should send everyone who wants to go to be there soon, but not who wants to defend there, because they would get there too late. right?


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notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6859326 -

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (06/05/16 09:52 PM)

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6859335 -

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (06/05/16 09:52 PM)

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #6859427 -

You have strange notions of legality. Wherever did you get them?


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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6859479 -

zappaisgod said:
You have strange notions of legality. Wherever did you get them?

... strange notions of poverty too.

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: DieCommie]
    #6859644 -

one thing I will say positive about war in Iraq:

One of my very good friends dad who is a huge millionaire lawyer, but also an active reservist, recently went to Iraq to be a JAG officer. Now this guy is incredibly wierd, he is obsessed with war but at the same time opposes it. He has a room filled with heads of animals from all over the world, next to pictures of Castro, Goldwater, the Enola Gay, and various countries flags.
But anyway, he was going to be stationed somewhere over there for a little over a year, but he came back after two weeks for two reasons.
1) Some internal problems regarding the Air Force being "used" by other branches of the armed forces.
2) His views on current affairs were not welcomed.

he told me that he thought for sure he would go over there and be able to joke around and maybe find like minded people who weren't staunch anti-war liberals, but also didnt go around thinking they were truly fighting for America's freedom.
He said "everyone there tows the line".

While he wasnt a grunt, it still seems like if you truly dont want to be in Iraq, you dont have to. Another buddy of mine spent 9 months in the brig in California after a short tour in Afghanistan for selling hash.And one giant pussy I know went through basic training and almost completed marine training (or however it works), even got the USMC tat's, and told a psychiatrist something (still unknown exactly) that ended it all for him.

so there are ways to be dishonorably discharged. From what I can tell.

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6859703 -

The Dems should just say "Fine, if you won't agree to a timeline, we'll just stop funding the war altogether and bring our troops home now." Unfortunately, the Dems don't have the balls to do that, particularly with a presidential election a year away.


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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: Silversoul]
    #6859717 -

isnt that one of the main reasons why the democrats control congress?

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: Silversoul]
    #6859756 -

What a cluster fuck this has become.

As a former advocate of the war itself, let alone a participant, this is indeed the quagmires of quagmires. For one, troops on the active duty level do not have a choice; or make policy that could potentially save themselves. On one hand, one would be branded unloyal to the USA to defect or AWOL, yet at the same time, to put troops in harms way during a pseudo- three way civil war, with no clear cut rules of engagement is equally deplorable in my book.


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (05/01/07 09:34 PM)

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Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6860095 -

psilocyberin said:
isnt that one of the main reasons why the democrats control congress?



In 2008 the Dem's could very well control the White House, Senate and congress and trust me WE ARE NOT LEAVING IRAQ ANY TIME SOON!


Its all smoke and mirrors...

IMO this isn't really a debate about Iraq at all, just mere Politics
similar to the Dreyfus affair which divided France during the 1890s and early 1900s.

The vast majority of people who discussed the Dreyfus Affair didn't, in actuality, care all that much about the fate of Alfred Dreyfus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_Affair

IMO with this increasing conflict between Islamic fundamentalism and the civilized world, it is an absolute military necessity that America have a robust network of MILITARY BASES located at the center of mass of the Islamic world.

I don't see us leaving Iraq for at least 20 years.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: President Bush refuses to sign surrender bill [Re: lonestar2004]
    #6860225 -

lonestar2004 said:
psilocyberin said:
isnt that one of the main reasons why the democrats control congress?



In 2008 the Dem's could very well control the White House, Senate and congress and trust me WE ARE NOT LEAVING IRAQ ANY TIME SOON!


Its all smoke and mirrors...

IMO this isn't really a debate about Iraq at all, just mere Politics
similar to the Dreyfus affair which divided France during the 1890s and early 1900s.

The vast majority of people who discussed the Dreyfus Affair didn't, in actuality, care all that much about the fate of Alfred Dreyfus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_Affair

IMO with this increasing conflict between Islamic fundamentalism and the civilized world, it is an absolute military necessity that America have a robust network of MILITARY BASES located at the center of mass of the Islamic world.

I don't see us leaving Iraq for at least 20 years.



I completely agree with you here. There's too much corporate profit being made from this war. I know this has been said time and again, but this is going to end just like vietnam, no matter how long we stay there. The only way it will end earlier is if one group wipes the other(s) completely off the map. We are involved in a dispute that has been going on for centuries. We are also involved in a dispute that we have helped (Donald Rumsfeld in the 80's anyone???) to fuel on during the last half century or so.

The only thing I must say is that I don't agree with having military bases or involvement in the middle east, nor anywhere in the world. We have become nothing more than the same imperialist antagonist that we fought to gain independence from more than 200 years ago. Who are we to say who can do what? We have problems abound at home, yet we need to go start a fight (most of this was not happening when Saddass was in power) that is not just going to involve a nation or two, it is going to involve the entire region. Our involvement there is just fueling the fire. One can say that the killing will increase once our occupation is done. All I see is that the killing is continuing to happen, even with our presence. The only change that would occur is that our own men and women would not be dying for a lost cause.


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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