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preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok?
    #6646023 -

I just bought a bunch of organic soft wheat berries. I've seen lots of rye grain teks and I was wondering if there is anything different that I should know when preparing my quart jars for wheat berries. I plan on soaking 24 hrs (rinse untill water runoff is clear), simmer with coffee water (as in RogerRabits tek http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5819102#5819102, use colander to get excess of and fill jars followed by a good pressure cooking. Is there anything I should do different? Thanks. Also, at what point in the simmering proccess do you know the wheat berries are ready? Is sphagnum nec.?

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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: unitybrodel]
    #6646050 -

Here is a method for White Wheat:

1. Be sure to use a large enough pot, as the grain will more than double in volume when cooked (three times the final volume is a good start). Fill it with at least twice the volume of water as cooked grain desired, and then bring the pot to a full boil on your stove. Carefully pour in your dry grain, and bring the pot back to a full, rolling boil.

2. Hold is there for 10 minutes, turn off the burner, and allow the pot to sit, covered, for at least 8 hours (but no longer than 16). At this point, it should have nearly doubled in volume and will be fully hydrated (to test, crush one grain between your fingers, it should be completely soft on the inside.)

3. Drain thoroughly in a colander. If the grains are at all sticky after draining, rinse in several changes of cold water and drain well.

4. Load the grain into your containers, along with the appropriate amounts of calcium carbonate and calcium sulfate. Seal, Shake well, and load into your pressure cooker, making sure to leave as much space as possible between individual containers.

5. Sterilize for the appropriate amount of time.

6. Allow to cool completely before using, or overnight if necessary. Leave the jars inside the sealed pressure cooker until ready to inoculate.


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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #6646085 -

thanks for the tek! but adding calcium carbonate? what is the correct amount? how much would for a cup for instance. does this balance the ph?

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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: unitybrodel]
    #6646754 -

.5 -1% Balences the PH and provides extra minerals, and provides free flowing properties.

Remember - this is optional, but optimal.


--------------------
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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #6646765 -

It doesn't turn to mush ??

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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: Blutjager]
    #6646824 -

what do you mean?


--------------------
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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #6646841 -

I was thinking it would get too mushy to use

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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: Blutjager]
    #6646857 -

Why would adding CAC03 and Calcium sulfate cause it to get mushy?


--------------------
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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #6647334 -

Alternative tek (not that the one above is bad) - I am using wheat all the time with perfect results following this procedure. But mine may not be "soft wheat" (whatever this means). Mine is animal feed grade untreated wheat:

1. Let the wheat soak for 12-24 hours in cold water in a cold place.
2. Rinse well several times until the water is clear.
3. Boil on the stove for 10 minutes.
4. Pour into a colander while it is still boiling (watch out, there will be lots of steam and you may burn yourself)
5. It is hot and sitting in the colander - stir it from time to time (steam rises) and let it cool and dry from the evaporation. This will ensure perfect moisture content later.
6. When the grains are dry to the touch and do not stick to your hand, load them in your jars with no extra water and PC for at least an hour and a half.
7. You are ready.

I do not put any additives in the grain. The above method works very well for me.


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WHEAT berries TEK
What conditions induce fruiting stage - by RR
More useful stuff...

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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: geko]
    #6656142 -

I, too, could only find wheat berries (and at a beautiful 89c/lb), so it's good to hear they're usable.

Is the calcium carbonate being recommended specifically for wheat as opposed to rye? Is this grain somehow more acidic, or is it just a good idea in general?

I'm also adding a tiny bit of quinoa and a good bit of millet, as per various teks, which I suspect are really just beneficial for improving the looseness/texture and possibly adding a richer variety of proteins and such. Is this really beneficial, or is that hobbyist superstition?

Thanks!


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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #6656166 -

Also, geko, is soaking in cold water going to let the endospores germinates as necessary? Wouldn't using room temp as some teks (I think) suggest allow you to be sure they germinated? I mean, the idea during the soak would seem to be to create ideal bacterial conditions for a short while since you want them to be nice and happy and germinating before you kill them off.

Or maybe we're trying to limit absorption because wheat berries are too inclined to go mushy as compared to rye? I don't get it.


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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #6657317 -

I don't add anything to the wheat and it works excellent. You can treat it like rye and it seems to perform virtually the same. Soak it and simmer it with 50% dilluded coffe, if you want faster colonization.
However, something very weird happened to me recently - I had super fast colonization in two jars and I am in the process of isolating the cause. If I do, I'll let everyone know. I have some clues already.

Quote:
Also, geko, is soaking in cold water going to let the endospores germinates as necessary? Wouldn't using room temp as some teks (I think) suggest allow you to be sure they germinated? I mean, the idea during the soak would seem to be to create ideal bacterial conditions for a short while since you want them to be nice and happy and germinating before you kill them off.


If you use cold water in a cold place you can leave them for 24+ hours safely. If you want to speed things up a little you can use room temp, but then in 24 hours the grains may start to germinate. I would recommend the following from experience: In the very beginning rinse them thoroughly many times, stirring vigorously. The water will be brown at first, when it gets clear, let them soak. Then everything will be OK. Let them soak for 15-20 hours in a moderately cold place then. I am using totally untreated animal feed grade wheat and it is the most dirty kind and yet there are no problems with this method.
Just to mention. If by accident you find the grains germinated a little, don't toss them away. Use them, you will find no difference as long as they are properly steam dried when you put them in the jars. 

Quote:
Or maybe we're trying to limit absorption because wheat berries are too inclined to go mushy as compared to rye?


No such thing. I have used with success grains soaked for 48+ hours and then boiled for 1 hour (by mistake). They were in fact ready to be eaten :wink: If you have a healthy culture, it will colonize them fast enough even in some extreme cases like this. But of course, I would not recommend going this far.


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WHEAT berries TEK
What conditions induce fruiting stage - by RR
More useful stuff...

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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: geko]
    #6659409 -

just to let you all know...i pH tested my wheat berries and they were def acidic so I added some hyrdated lime. also I didn't add gypsum and they seem fine so far.

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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: unitybrodel]
    #6659424 -

Did you rinse them first? I'm trying to comprehend the notion of an acidic grain...


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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #6660138 -

unitybrodel,
The main aim is to make something which will grow mushrooms fast and without problems. The grains may well be acidic, but they work excellent as they are. Besides, if you do a little reading you will find out that little acidity helps mycellium growth.
My advice - do the things which work and don't make it more complicated that it should be.


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WHEAT berries TEK
What conditions induce fruiting stage - by RR
More useful stuff...

Edited by geko (03/11/07 11:30 PM)

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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: geko]
    #6660194 -

Rant.

If I can increase or speed up my yield with a small change, I make the small change, or I at least stow away the necessary information to test that change if I want to vary my method in the next grow. While the end result is product, the end result is also enjoyment, and for the people who approach mycology as an intellectual pursuit experimentation and an actual understanding of what we do is central to that enjoyment. Meanwhile, that kind of experimentation is what gives us the methods we have today, and it improves the abiilty to produce better yield in the long term. Basically, it's why we have a site like Shroomery. If we all wanted the most direct way to produce, we'd still be dicking around with PF-tek, inefficient as it is. Why do I have to even have to say this, anyway?

Back to the point, though--what we need to know here is the typical acidity of our substrate as compared to the ideal acidity. Cubes like a very mildly acidic substrate, even though they'll grow fine in a neutral one as well. I don't remember the ideal cube pH, but it would be good to know, now that I think of it. Something like 6.5?

I'd like to find out, and I'd like to use that info. The point of experimentation is to determine what "will grow mushrooms fast[er] and with [fewer] problems," as you put it. Why bitch at someone for trying something new?

Nice tek, though. I just think you are too caught up in defending it as gospel. If teks were gospel, no one would never make new teks.


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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #6660355 -

No, no..I did not intend to be rude at all! And this TEK is just a compilation of other peoples' advice, mainly RR.
What you say above is absolutely right. Maybe I didn't express myself well enough. Sorry for that. English language is not my strength and I do find that people take me as more rude than I intend sometimes.
I am in fact very much into experimenting myself. Right now I am doing quite a lot of unorthodox things to see which one might work - and one of them will.
Anyway, what I really wanted to say is that changing the ph of wheat does not seem to affect anything. Soaking in coffee for example will sped things up, though. For a beginner however, I feel it would be better to start with the simplest, proven method. This is not PF cakes IMO, but just plain grain.


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WHEAT berries TEK
What conditions induce fruiting stage - by RR
More useful stuff...

Edited by geko (03/12/07 12:53 AM)

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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: geko]
    #6997084 -

Alright, this thread's getting old, but I think this is worth bringing up.

I've seen a lot of people say that wheat berries look a lot like rye berries. What I've been working with looks NOTHING like rye berries, and in fact looks a lot like quinoa or millet. Tiny little seeds. If you cook them, you get cous cous, at least by taste/appearance.

So uh... I did one quart, let it soak a day or so until smelly, rinse, cook for 10 minutes, and pow, every one of the little bastards popped open. Drying to the right consistency proved difficult, and lacking any gypsum (or thinking I lacked it, not knowing it was calcium sulfate) I added a little bit of fine verm (bottom of the bag stuff) to prevent clumping and to dry it out so they wouldn't stick to my hands much. Despite all this bastardization of the teks, I PC'd and shot it up anyway. It took a hell of a beating to shake it all up after the inoculation, but it got loose and has been sitting on a shelf for four and a half days now.

Spore germination has occurred on a very small scale I think, though at this stage it's hard to tell the difference between early mycelial growth and excess starch on the little bit of moisture in the jars. I guess I'll let people know how it goes. Like I said, these aren't rye berries, they aren't even wheat berries... I don't know, are they "soft" or "white" wheat berries? Again, they're less than 1/2mm diameter. Tiny.

The next batch, I'm going to try to let them absorb water at room temp, with daily rinsings, before inoculation. No cooking, that is, just germination and PC. I think that might help them to keep their texture, which is more or less the whole point of whole grain spawn.


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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #6997844 -

Bump and clarification of question I guess.

A) Has anyone used these? The tiny little things that the health food store called wheat berries, but which appear to be different from what other people call wheat berries?

B) Can I hydrate my grain without exploding it by letting it soak longer, with rinsing? Or should I just simmer it way less?


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Re: preperation of SOFT wheat berries - much diff. from rye? this tek ok? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #6999724 -

Never mind, folks. I think I've figured it out--the organics store up here mislabeled the millet as wheat berries. :frown:

Oh well, on to a WBS tek then!


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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