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Re: Hybrid?
    #66332 - 11/28/98 08:04 AM (25 years, 16 days ago)

What "spec" of informatin suggested that mushrooms ever reproduce asexually? They don't except in the lab, every single basidocarp (mushroom for the "dullards") is the result of the genetic intermingling of two different gametes (the spores), and every single spore is a selection of the sexual mingling of two haploid sets of chromosomes producing millions of spores, each a little different from either of the two which gave rise to that particular mushroom.

Mushroom lifecycle in brief:

Each spore is a haploid set of the chromosomes of the given mushroom species. It takes a full set of chromosomes (one pair of each type there is) to make an adult, or diploid organism. The spores germinate into monokaryotic mycelium which meet up with other monokaryotic mycelium. If the other monokaryotic mycelium expresses a different mating type (there's even multiple "sexes" to help ensure genetic diversity), the two cross over and fuse forming a dikaryotic mycelium which is diploid, containing a full set of chromosome pairs for the species.

Eventually conditions are right and a mushroom forms. Within the cap, in specialised cells called basidia, meiosis occurs and basidiospores, or just spores, are formed, each one containing one of each type of chromosome but a mixture of the possible combinations of chromosomes originally carried by the two parental spores.

So within species hybrids are quite possible and a simple matter of isolating monokaryotic mycelia from each strain and letting nature take its course when you bring them into proximity with one another.

What I'd like to get off my chest is that the very definition of a species is that it cannot interbreed successfully with any other species out there, and if it can successfully interbreed with another species out there, it's not really another species but just another marking or subspecies of the same main species. E.g. a chihuahua and a wolf are still Canis lupus, you just tack a familiaris on the end of the chihuahua's name to designate its domesticated status, but if you bred them you'd get puppies which would grow into sexually mature adults. Conversely, a horse and a donkey, if you breed them you actually do get a viable offspring, which is surprising in its own right, but it is sexually sterile and always "male", they are not the same species. This is the most basic, most simple definition of species. So, whenever the thought enters your head that maybe FMF's B+ or mexicana is somehow an azure/cubie hybrid or a mexicana/cubie hybrid, or that some of the wild crosses that PES is claiming might be the real thing, the answer is, "NO, it's not." If it were possible at all to cross different species of mushrooms, it would be a oneshot hybrid from which you could not get viable spores. The way similar looking mushrooms are confirmed as the same or different species is by growing out monokaryotic mycelium and seeing if it cross with one another or not, different species do not cross and therefore do not make interspecies hybrids.

These things are the results of careful selection within a single species and nothing more.

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Re: Hybrid?
    #66334 - 11/28/98 12:55 PM (25 years, 15 days ago)

Monkey, all I can say is, YOU MYCOPHILE, YOU!!! heh

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Re: Hybrid?
    #66335 - 11/28/98 02:58 PM (25 years, 15 days ago)

I'm humbled. Careful digging with search engines finds a couple of pages that support the same position.

At the same time, "mushrooms reproduce asexually" has been drilled into my head since the first bio course I took in junior high. Compton's Encyclopedia definition of a spore:

The microscopic, one-celled organisms by which bacteria, fungi, and green plants reproduce are called spores. By means of a process called asexual reproduction, spores are able to grow into new individuals without uniting with another reproductive cell. Thus spores are distinguished from gametes, which are reproductive cells that must unite with gametes of the opposite sex in order to form a new organism. The latter process is called sexual reproduction.

How am I supposed to reconcile these seemingly conflicting pieces of information?

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Re: Hybrid?
    #66336 - 11/28/98 04:40 PM (25 years, 15 days ago)

Thank you spore monkey !
I have been thinking the same thing, but my english isn?t good enough to put it in words.
Why do i get the feeling that many of the people trying to grow mushrooms has newer been in to a library or is much too young to be playing with these things.
My point is that everone has been a newbie and needs advices from more experienced growers, but from some postings i get the impression that they don?t even bother to read the older (1 month+) postings.
Why do some people think theyr? gonna get everything served on a silverplate ?
I?m not saying that i?m perfect in any way, but sometimes i get really tired and don?t even bother to answer the most basic questions.
Ok, now i?ve been rambling on for a while, time to log off and get to bed.
(just wasting bandwidth)

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Re: Hybrid?
    #66337 - 09/27/00 08:19 PM (23 years, 2 months ago)

Just bringing this great post and explanation of "hybrid" by spore monkey to the top. Enjoy.

-peace- www.thehawkseye.com


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Re: Hybrid?
    #66338 - 09/28/00 05:33 PM (23 years, 2 months ago)

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Re: Hybrid?
    #66339 - 09/29/00 02:59 AM (23 years, 2 months ago)

the mushrooms are just the fruits of the sexual mating of 2 haploid mycelium strands creating a sexually derived fruiting duploid product....so spores in themselves are not sexual but there creation was sexually derived...

the definition of a spiecies is that it is unique genetically and not merly a hybrid of other spiecies....most spiecies can successfully cross breed with other spiecies within the same genus and often the same family...the orchid family, for instance, has 10,000's of inter genus hybrids recorded....it is possible to interbreed Felis domestica with Felis africanensis..and inter family crossings are possible with some of the higher organisms...fish..and even mamalia...so you are wrong on that one

the nomenclature is:
var *see note
spiecies ====>spiecies always
genus g1, spiecies x1,=====>genus b1,spiecies y1 most of the time

family x,===> family y, never

variety or var.=a subclass below genus used when a class of organisms is different from the originating spiecies but not so different to be a new spiecies..

[This message has been edited by techno (edited September 29, 2000).]

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Re: Hybrid?
    #66340 - 09/29/00 04:55 AM (23 years, 2 months ago)

Hey techno. What mammals breed between species?

"If I catch ya wit ya draws down I'ma do ya"......Tec-9

"It must be your stamps girl... cause it aint your face" -- Juvenile

"Only in America does someone order a cheese burger, large fries, and a diet Coke" -- ?

"DXMHEAD420 ripped me off and was an ass about it too" -- Myself

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Re: Hybrid?
    #66341 - 09/29/00 08:51 PM (23 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you for clearing that up monkey, I enjoy reading your posts. Thanks.

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