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Invisibledysphoria
lost soul

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Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1,651
question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore printing
    #1624069 - 06/10/03 05:39 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

hello again all

without going into too much detail..my question is simply this:

if you take a spore print from a mushroom grown from a cake that was exhibiting monokaryotic mycelium, would this be transferred to future generations grown from said spore print, or would the spores from the same mushroom eventually form dikaryotic mycelium from monokaryotic compatables? ..(you might've been right afterall 40oz =) )


-jb


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InvisibleAinasko
Oksania
Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 694
Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore printing [Re: dysphoria]
    #1624108 - 06/10/03 06:07 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

If you were to take a spore print from a mushroom exhibiting monocaryotic traits, chances are good that these traits would be passed on through its spores. It is not guaranteed unless the spores contained the proper DNA.


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Invisible40oz
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore printing [Re: dysphoria]
    #1625549 - 06/11/03 03:43 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hello again all

without going into too much detail..my question is simply this:

if you take a spore print from a mushroom grown from a cake that was exhibiting monokaryotic mycelium, would this be transferred to future generations grown from said spore print, or would the spores from the same mushroom eventually form dikaryotic mycelium from monokaryotic compatables? ..(you might've been right afterall 40oz =) )


-jb



ill agree with this statement:
Quote:


If you were to take a spore print from a mushroom exhibiting monocaryotic traits, chances are good that these traits would be passed on through its spores.



and add:
if you want to try to 'revive' senescent mycelium,
take the print and make another syringe (multi-spore culture) and innoculate on a different substrate.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore prin [Re: dysphoria]
    #1625553 - 06/11/03 03:46 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

You can't grow mushrooms from monokaryotic mycellia - it's sterile. Mycellium has to be dicaryotic in order to produce fruits & spores.
Besides that it's almost impossible to get monokaryotic mycellia when inoculating substrate with a spore syringe.


Edited by zeronio (06/11/03 03:48 AM)


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Invisible40oz
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore prin [Re: zeronio]
    #1625609 - 06/11/03 04:42 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You can't grow mushrooms from monokaryotic mycellia - it's sterile. Mycellium has to be dicaryotic in order to produce fruits & spores.
Besides that it's almost impossible to get monokaryotic mycellia when inoculating substrate with a spore syringe.




we've already established that in this thread
we're speaking out of context so to say.


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OfflineWapo
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Registered: 05/04/03
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore prin [Re: zeronio]
    #1625626 - 06/11/03 05:13 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i may not know much about cultivation but i know my biology this is a post that i can be of some help

check this out dysphoria it is an exert from a bio text it might shed some light.
tommorow i'll try n post a cool pic of a lifecycle of a basidiomycete ( the phylum that cubies belong to) that is consistent with psylocybe cubensis. The pic will make this text much easier to understand sry that i dont post with pic but i dont have a scanner till work time.

"Many fungi have heterokaryotic stage"

"The nuclei of fungal hyphae and spores of most species are haploid, exept
for transient diploid stages that form during sexual life cycles. However, some mycelia may become genetically heterogenous through the fusion of two hyphea that have genetically different nuclei. Such a mycelium is said to be a heterokaryon, meaning "different nuclei". In some cases, the different nuclei stay in seperate parts of the same mycelium, which is then a mosaic in terms of genotype and phenotype. In other cases, the diferent nuclei mingle and may even exchange chromosomes and genes in a process similar to crossing over. This heterokaryon condition has some of the advantages of diploidy; one haploid genome may be able to compensate for harmful mutations in the other nucleus, and vice versa.
In many fungi with sexual life cycles. the union of partners occurs in two distinct stages called plasmogamy and karyogamy. First comes plasmogamy, the fusion of the two parents' cytoplasm when their mycelia come together. The second stage, karyogamy, is the fusion of the haploid nuclei contributed by the two parents. Plasmogamy and karyogamy may be seperated in time by hours, days, or even years or centuries. During the interim, the hybrid mycelium exists as a heterokaryon, its haploid nuclei still seperate. In some fungi the haploid nuclei pair off, two to a cell, one from each parent. Such a mycelium, a special case of heterokaryon, is said to be dikaryotic, meaning "two nuclei". Without fusing, the two nuclei in each cell divide tandem as the mycelium grows, until karyogamy finally occurs. In most fungi, the zygotes or transient structures formed by karyogamy are the only diploid stages in the life cycle. Meiosis restores the haploid condition before specialized reproductive structures of the mycelium produce and disperse spores. Of course, the sexual processes of karyogamy and meiosis have generated genetic variation, upon which adaptive evolution depends."



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OfflineWapo
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore prin [Re: Wapo]
    #1625682 - 06/11/03 06:15 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

the basic idea
1) cubie spores are haploid 1n
2) one spore=one hypha
3) two hephea fuse to form a dikariotic mycelium
4) the dikariotic mycelium fruits
5) on the gills of the basidiocarp (fruit) reproductive structures called basidia form
6) one basidium is one cell
7) one basidium has two seperate haploid nuclei from the two seperate hyphea
8) karyogamy occurs (the two haploid nuclei fuse to form a diploid) 2n
9) meiosis occurs (the diploid nucleus ends up as four haploid nuclei)
10) the basidium grows four appendages, the four haploid nuclei get ejected into the four appendages and form four basidiospores which are your cubie spores and the cycle never ends, hopefully )


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OfflineWapo
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore prin [Re: Wapo]
    #1625684 - 06/11/03 06:17 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

#3 is when the plasmogamy occurs


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Invisible40oz
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore prin [Re: Wapo]
    #1625697 - 06/11/03 06:37 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

we're talking about strain degeneration (senescence) :wink: 


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tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore prin [Re: 40oz]
    #1625714 - 06/11/03 06:48 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Yes f2f, you're talking about senescence. :wink:
I was trying to clarify what monokaryotic means, since the word was not used in correct context.

Wapo, thanks for the in depth explanation! 


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Invisible40oz
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore prin [Re: zeronio]
    #1625798 - 06/11/03 08:13 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Yes f2f



whoa...no1's ever abbreviate my handle like that...
...you confused me...im like -->:confused:
usually ppl call me: 40,40oz, forty, 4D, fody, and so on..lol...but never 'f2f'
...almost stumped me fucker..;)
Quote:

the word was not used in correct context.



i shoulda caught that :wink: 


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tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore prin [Re: 40oz]
    #1625809 - 06/11/03 08:22 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I thought you'll like it. :frown:
What about freedom4fortyounces? :smile:
 


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Invisible40oz
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Re: question concerning monokaryotic mycelium and spore prin [Re: zeronio]
    #1625818 - 06/11/03 08:31 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

:shocked: :confused: :cool:


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tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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