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Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor
    #6596933 -

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=2223

Caracas, February 21, 2007 (venezuelanalysis.com)— Venezuela’s Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro and London’s Mayor Ken Livingstone signed an agreement yesterday according to which Venezuela would provide discounted diesel fuel in exchange for advice on public transportation, environmental protection, tourism, and city planning.

According to the deal, which Chavez had promised in mid 2006 while he was visiting London, Venezuela’s state-owned oil company will provide 50 million liters of diesel at a 20% discount for its fleet of 8,000 buses. The deal will allow the city of London to provide 250,000 Londoners half-price bus tickets.

Livingstone said of the agreement, “This agreement will benefit up to a quarter of a million of the lowest income Londoners. Those on income support will be eligible to receive half price bus and tram travel – a benefit worth at least the equivalent of £280 a year.”

Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro said of the deal, “This agreement will strengthen relationships between the peoples of London and Venezuela. It is a win-win strategy that fits within the policy of integration and the character of the Bolivarian Government of President Hugo Chavez.”

Venezuela has engaged in several similar oil for goods or services deals, such as with Cuba, where it provides Cuba oil on favorable terms in exchange for Cuban doctors who work in Venezuela’s poor neighborhoods. In another project, the Venezuelan owned gasoline refiner and distributor Citgo provides discounted heating oil to hundreds of thousands of poor communities in the U.S.

“Other programs by Venezuela to reduce the impact of energy prices on the least well off sections of society, such as Joseph P Kennedy II’s Citizens Energy programme in the US, have used this for heating homes. However in London too few people use this form of heating for it to be effective whereas London’s transport system, in particular its bus network, is one of the largest in the world and used by all parts of the population,” said Livingstone.

For London, the agreement will save the city $32 million out of its busses’ annual $200 million fuel bill.

The agreement was criticized by London assembly Conservative spokesman Richard Barnes who said, “I think that for one of the richest cities in the world to be getting foreign aid like this is indefensible,” reported the Guardian.
Supporters of the deal argue, though, that both countries gain from the deal. “Each partner is drawing on something that for them is relatively cheap but for the other is vital and expensive,” Livingstone said.

:shocked: :grin:


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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: Arp]
    #6596966 -

Sounds like a good deal to me. Also, it only states the position of a single conservative in that articles. Where do you get the plural from?

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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: Redstorm]
    #6597102 -

http://theconservativevoice.com/ap/article.html?mi=D8NDMFQG0&apc=9002


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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: Arp]
    #6597240 -

Are you a native English speaker? I only ask because "fury" is a rather simple and well understood word. At any rate, from your link, I quote,

Quote:
"Why does London, one of the richest capitals in the world, need to exploit a developing nation?" asked Richard Barnes, deputy leader of the London Assembly Conservatives. "This money would be better directed at the poor of Venezuela."


Indeed. Mr. Chavez is the worst kind of demagogue. While his nation's economy is collapsing around him he is out grandstanding for the world press and other lefty schmucks. Mugabe, anyone?


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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6597266 -

No I'm not. Why? You have a suggestion for a better word to use or is this just a part of your ranting-scheme? :confused:


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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: Arp]
    #6597370 -

Another word abused..... "rant". Frankly, I would retitle this thread
"Conservatives in disgust over theft from the poor." But I don't hold out many dictators as heroes.


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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: Arp]
    #6597385 -

Yeah, your thread title makes it sound like conservatives are pissed that someone is giving aid to the poor, when actually the opposite it true. You should work for the AP.

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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6597440 -

Better stick to the issue than go into my choice of words if you want me to listen. Personal attacks just get me off-track.

I see these actions of Venezuela as propaganda but nevertheless found
the article amusing as it came down to a third-world country assisting the poor of the "rich world".


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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: Viveka]
    #6597452 -

Never judge a book by its cover :tongue:

If the title is all you read then no wonder why the discussions here are so full of litter.

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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: Arp]
    #6597591 -

Arp said:
Better stick to the issue than go into my choice of words if you want me to listen. Personal attacks just get me off-track.


You misused two words and posted misleading title, ala annapurna and alex. The conservatives are not furious and I didn't rant. Pointing these things out are not personal attacks.
Quote:
I see these actions of Venezuela as propaganda but nevertheless found
the article amusing as it came down to a third-world country assisting the poor of the "rich world".


I see these things as the action of a megalomaniacal dictator who really needs to look after his own people instead of his press clippings and moonbat approval rating. I don't find it the least bit funny. That does not quite constitute fury, however, and this is not a rant. Indeed, I daresay the only personal attack between us may have been by you when you mischaracterized my post as a "rant-scheme", whatever the hell that is.


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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6597770 -

good post zap

Chavez is selling cheap oil to London, buying Ak-47's from Russia, making allies with Iran, and calling the United States evil. He's trying to appeal to everyone and improve his ratings at home. His actions in Venezuala are not helping the people but as long as he keeps up his cartoonish act and keeps support high at home he will be in power. His country is a bunch of poor and uneducated and they think all his talk and action is good. In time they will figure out Chavez was a big mistake to elect to office.


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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6597796 -

Sorry if you were offended upon my choice of words, but what got me
excited was the assumed attempt of belittling by bringing up my
origin based upon "simple" words as you did put it.
Perhaps I percieved you wrong, if so I'm sorry.

Yet the title of the thread was not misleading. There are actually
conservatives agitated by their country accepting "foreign aid" from
Venezuela. Whether its propaganda by Chavéz or not it goes to the poor
nevertheless declared "aid" by the conservatives themself.

Wherever the oil-money went pre-Chavéz was surely not to the
Venezuelan population. Of course a fast growing economy is difficult
to maintain with outside pressure and when actually using some of the
wealth on the population. There is more profit letting people starve.
Although these changes seems to be done gradually, only time will tell
whats his true intentions are. A growing economy and the wellbeing of
the population doesn't always go hand in hand.

Anyways, information in trade for oil is a good deal and can benefit the country longterm.


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Edited by Arp (02/22/07 03:46 PM)

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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: Arp]
    #6598906 -

Actually a good economy and well being do go hand in hand. A good economy i think would mean: a living wage for all workers, a stable network of social programs to help those who need it(ie layedoff workers, disabled, elderly etc), free market(chavez is anti freemarket), increased public services, good work conditions, low unemployment, education to all citizens. All of these things help the population and economy. They are mutually dependent, if the economy is bad the population suffers and vice-versa

Chavez is slow to implement these types of reforms and is actively opposed to a few of them. Also his programs while "good" in intention fail to deliver because he is trying to run a socialist government which has in all historical examples failed to provide real economic success, Chavez's Venezuala will be no different. He is unfortunately not any better than the last leaders of Venezuala who fed on the poor and took advantage of them and their land. Hopefully Venezuala will get good officials before Chavez totally eliminates democracy and ruins venezuala further.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: Arp]
    #6601903 -

Actually, the question in regard to native speaker is an effort on my part to find some excuse for your misuse, other than a dishonest attempt to mischaracterize the article.

I am fully aware that English is one of the most difficult languages to learn and I can almost always pick out a non-native English speaker in a few sentences. It's incredibly easy even with the most fluent.

That being said, there are now food shortages in Venezuela
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/e0d7320e-7e39-11da-8ef9-0000779e2340.html
Investors are fleeing
http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=41006
Crime is on the rise
http://www.freeserbia.net/Articles/2006/DonChavez.html
"Meanwhile, crime has exploded. According to human rights groups and a Unesco study, Venezuela has the highest rate of gun-related deaths of 57 countries surveyed - far surpassing Brazil, one of the most violent nations in Latin America.

"Venezuela has undeniably become one of the most violent countries in the world," said Julio Jacobo Waiselfisz, the researcher who conducted the Unesco study."

This vile turd is going to fuck a lot of people to prove the right's point that socialism sucks.


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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6602006 -

Yeah I've read various sources about these issues. Chávez thinks the
food prices are outrageous, and vendors don't get the profit they want
so they refuse to sell. The country is in a transition and I guess
it's only a matter of time before they will nationalize.
It is pretty obvious why the private investors are fleeing.

Here is an article I found:
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=2219

It's the uprise of the lower-class that has been oppressed for
quite some time. Rich tourists are favorite targets.


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Re: Conservatives in fury for aid to the poor [Re: Arp]
    #6602772 -

On the issue that venezuala eximplifies i suggest people who find this interesting to read the book World on Fire by Amy Chua which is one of the best researched books i've ever read and presents a very interesting look at global economy and its effects.

and chaves still sucks :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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