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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Hallucinogens, just a myth?
    #6320014 -

When I was little I've never heard of psychedelic drugs, the word psychedelic didnt mean much to me at all. While I knew there are drugs I didnt know much about em, and when I did hear something it was usualy bullshit, which ofcourse I didnt know at the time. But there is one thing I know for a fact, Ive learend the word HALLUCINATION since as long as I can remember. And the word "hallucination" always assosiated with drugs for me. It was something one would see while on drugs, something unreal and something that isnt there, a random object or person that would magically appear infront of the "user" which noone else would see. And I also knew that these hallucinations didnt appear with just any drugs, you needed to use psychedelics, which at the time I only knew as hallucinogens....

So what Im trying to get at, are there real hallucinogens? What are they? Is there a drug that you take and just start hallucinating? Seeing PINK ELEPHANTS in the sky so to speak? Because thats what a hallucination is, a weird fucking thing just appear out of nowhere.

Now some of you might say, well thats what a psychedelic is, but honestly I dont see it that way. To me psychedelics are sort of like a boost for your mind, like take vibrant colors for example. I mean the colors you see are already there, yet they seem so much brighter since your brain is sort of on this boost. The visions one migh see under psychedelics are not completely "fake", they are usualy objects that are already real and present in the setting, combined with your set, imagination, to sort of form into somehting else...kind of like an illusion. Like the ghost that my buddy has seen, it was just a light beam from the outside, which came from a weird direction and sort of looked like a ghost on the ceiling. Now was it a ghost? No, but was it a hallucination? No, because after all the light was infact real, and it was just an illusion.


So where did this controvericial word "Hallucinogen" come from? And why were psychedelics mislabeled as Hallucinogens? And honestly they still are misslabeled to this day. Sometimes if a conversation strikes about shrooms or LSD around people who dont know much about em, they are refered to as Hallucinogens.

Now im not out there looking for Hallucinations, or Hallucinogens. I just want to know whether Hallucinogens truly do exist? The only theory I have is that Psychedelics become Hallucinogens with extreme doses. I have no experience with EXTREME doses, therefore I cant really comment. But its a theory. :-D

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: TMshroom]
    #6320029 -

You just haven't tripped hard enough.

Try some 15x salvia extract and you will suddenly know what a hallucinogen is.


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Agent 727
7

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: MAGnum]
    #6320050 -

Hmm yea I completely forgot about salvia, and DMT. I guess these could be considered Hallucinogens, but then even dreams are sort of natural Hallucinations. And Im guesing Hallucinogen got stuck to Psychedelic drugs and misslabeled due to uneducated ppl, rumors and BS.



Man do I feel like this thread is completely useless now. hehe  :evil:

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: MAGnum]
    #6320064 -

Well, kaleidoscopic, geometric patterns that seem to reach into eternity are not there normally.

hallucination: a sensory experience of something that does not exist outside the mind, caused by various physical and mental disorders, or by reaction to certain toxic substances, and usually manifested as visual or auditory images.

I prefer the term psychedelic, but hallucinogen works just fine for me aswell.

Datura can give you hallucinations like some one just walked into the room, but really no one did. Thats only because its a deleriant, not a full blown psychedelic. With datura you basically dream while awake, in a way.

Fasting and sleep deprivation work wonders aswell. lol


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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: TMshroom]
    #6320105 -

just watch house
every second episode someone starts screaming becuase they're hallucinating random shit

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: takk]
    #6320119 -

Anarchyz0r said:
just watch house
every second episode someone starts screaming becuase they're hallucinating random shit


no thanks.......lol


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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: takk]
    #6320125 -

I was gonna Say Datura also, never tried it though and never will. for me Salvia is way more than just a hallucination.

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: takk]
    #6320142 -

Well, the thing is that hallucinations are not just limited "seeing a pink elephant" or seeing a ghost. Or something growing legs and walking around(this one is often cited, but totally shit). A hallucination is merely a clear distortion in perception.

You have auditory, tactile, ofactory, taste(i don't know the big word for that one), and visual hallucinations. Some appear more often than others. Personally i like to add one more to this, which is a psychological hallucination. Which is where i think shit is going on thats not. But i won't waste my time explaining that one.

Anyway, when i take some acid, or a good dose of mushrooms, i see plenty of hallucinations. I see tree bark going mad, swirling about, breathing, color shifts. Patterns are constantly moving and shifting. I look into the sky and see clouds doing things that i know clouds do not do on a sober day.

These are all hallucinations.


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"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: cpw1971]
    #6320144 -

man, even on shrooms I see stuff move. not just trippy looking stuff, but the cieling will actually start swirling around and bending down on me. it's beautiful though, it keeps me in a very happy place. :smile:

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: Nephlyte]
    #6320246 -

I think I see what you're saying... Usually, most visuals involve something real (like a wall) doing something unreal (like melting), but you are looking for something that appears out of thin air, like a lepurchaun or some sh1t. 

Another example of what you wouldn't consider a 'hallucination' is like when I never kept my room clean as a teenager, and the result of acid+opium+mj and looking at all of the cloths on my floor = the cloths turning into dead children laying all over my floor.  But, just after that, I saw a dark siloutte of a man in the corner of my room, but then he disapeared.  That, I think was what you would call a 'hallucination'.  There was no original object that 'formed into' the image, only an imagined object in my subconcious mind which took form outside in my field of vision.  It was just there, and then it wasn't.  (I would have rather seen a lepurchaun though, it was scury).

^That, I think is the difference.  Lower level 'hallucinations' require a real object to manipulate like clay, but a higher level trip will only require an imagined object to manipulate like clay and insert into the field of vision.  Personally though, I sometimes wonder if we see these things, or if we only think we DID after the moment has passed.  I don't really know about that though.

 
Nephlyte said:
  Personally i like to add one more to this, which is a psychological hallucination.  Which is where i think shit is going on thats not.  But i won't waste my time explaining that one.



Give it a try  :grin:


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I am not pursuing meditation to increase my psychedelic experience. I am pursuing psychedelic experience to increase my mediation.

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: 789andIeatyou]
    #6320729 -

Hallucinogens is a word of which we simply accept for what we see, even if it may not be the 100%-most-accurate word for it. Its like how the word Ironic is often mis-used, but people still get the drift of things.

And really, its easier to say 'Hallucination', or 'Visuals', then saying 'visual distortions'.  We're a bunch of drug users and simply too lazy to ensure that we always use the 100% correct taxonomy :smile:

A *TRUE* Hallucination is where you don't even know if what you are seeing is real or not, hell - you just accept it for the fact that it's real, even if it doesnt make sense. ie: Being on Datura, and seeing your old highs school gym coach walk into your bedroom that then suddenly looks like the locker room. To you, you are not thinking "wtf, my room just turned into a locker room", you just take it for a fact, that you are in a locker room talking to your coach. However, then that is more of a delerium than a true psychedelic state.

At the end of the day, its really just *EXTREMELY* intense visual distortions, even if your entire world has vanished around you into a wall of white and been replaced by complex inter-locking patterns which seem to bear no resemable to the reality it replaced ... its just *ONE* hell of a visual distortion.

But, its just kinda a commonly accepted term just to say that stuff is hallucinations.

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: Nephlyte]
    #6320733 -

Nephlyte said:
Well, the thing is that hallucinations are not just limited "seeing a pink elephant" or seeing a ghost. Or something growing legs and walking around(this one is often cited, but totally shit). A hallucination is merely a clear distortion in perception.

You have auditory, tactile, ofactory, taste(i don't know the big word for that one), and visual hallucinations. Some appear more often than others. Personally i like to add one more to this, which is a psychological hallucination. Which is where i think shit is going on thats not. But i won't waste my time explaining that one.

Anyway, when i take some acid, or a good dose of mushrooms, i see plenty of hallucinations. I see tree bark going mad, swirling about, breathing, color shifts. Patterns are constantly moving and shifting. I look into the sky and see clouds doing things that i know clouds do not do on a sober day.

These are all hallucinations.


*technically* speaking, I'd say those are just visual distortions and not TRUE hallucinations. They are sitll damn pretty however, and it's common for us to just call them hallucinations, but at the end of the day, if you wanted to be 100% accurate and anal about it, it wouldnt be a fully correct statement.

But, getting into an argument/debate of it is pretty useless in the long run.

*note: generally speaking, I'd agree with you, and call them hallucinations / visuals myself.

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: kaniz]
    #6321116 -

He he theres no such thing as a hallucination just a misperception of time and space. Kaleidoscopic shit if you havent noticed its there for everybody its part of the transition to other planes, we just block it out with filters. Like if a train whistle goes off at 3 everyday and you have lived there for years you tend not to hear the whistle. i wonder how many people finish going thru the kaleidoscopic tunnel because at the end of it is well... and while there the truth of time is revealed. ^.^ im back


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: kaniz]
    #6321117 -

He he theres no such thing as a hallucination just a misperception of time and space. Kaleidoscopic shit if you havent noticed its there for everybody its part of the transition to other planes, we just block it out with filters. Like if a train whistle goes off at 3 everyday and you have lived there for years you tend not to hear the whistle. i wonder how many people finish going thru the kaleidoscopic tunnel because at the end of it is well... and while there the truth of time is revealed. ^.^ im back


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: thedudenj]
    #6321201 -

hey dude your back
hows it going??

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: cpw1971]
    #6321239 -

I liked you better banned.


--------------------
On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now that is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: cpw1971]
    #6321252 -

there does seem to be a difference between psychedelics and true hallucinogens.

granted in the end... they are all considered psychedelics... but not all psychedelics can be considered true hallucinogens.

that doesnt take away the coolness of non-hallucinogenic psychedelics though... melting walls and the many other various things we see are pretty fucking rad.

yageman you said...

Datura can give you hallucinations like some one just walked into the room, but really no one did. Thats only because its a deleriant, not a full blown psychedelic. With datura you basically dream while awake, in a way.

see this is the shit that would startle the hell out of me, but isnt dmt and salvia this abrupt when you breakthrough?

is datura the only deleriant?

thedudenj... thats an interesting idea about the kaleidoscope


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"When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing" - Kevin Herbert

"Psychedelics let you see the world through a child's eye."

"Experience the liquid realm..."

"The evolution of mankind is in the alteration of consciousness" - Dr. Albert Hofmann

Edited by agoutihead (11/30/06 11:53 AM)

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: TMshroom]
    #6321270 -

You would get the hallucinations you want from PCP, or maybe ketamine. However, it's still possible on shrooms (for example) if you dose high enough. Try a high dose of syrian rue + a high dose of shrooms an hour later (1:1 ratio). Prior to this you should have fasted for at least a full day.

Benadryl, Datura and etc also give you 'real' hallucinations, but they feel like dreams so I don't know if you would count them.

Your own brain plays a big role in the drug as well. I noticed that I barely trip - at least visually - if I mentally try to tone down the drug. You have to mentally accept the chemical and don't IN ANY WAY try to tone it down, compare it to reality (or anything else) or try to make sense of it. Just go with the flow and do all your analyzing later.


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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6321293 -

Brewmaster said:
I liked you better banned.


Me too  :thumbup:

Though, I must admit I understood that post after reading it once. Keep it up dude!


--------------------
All I know is that I dont know.

Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.

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Re: Hallucinogens, just a myth? [Re: Quake3]
    #6321304 -

I guess to me, a "true" hallucination, would be one of - you dont know if its real or not, hell, you don't even know to question if it's real or not. If you know what you are seeing is being caused by the substance you took, then its not really a hallucination in the TRUEST sense of the word.

Regardless of how far I've gone, how much reality has shattered, no matter how fucked up what I'm seeing is and how it defies the laws of everything I know about reality, i still know its a result of a chemical I've put into my body, even if what I am seeing has no 'grounding' in the reality that I actually am in.


That being said, using the term hallucination to describe visual disturbances that one sees while under the influence of psychedelics is a common one, and is one that is generally accepted, and if people get into a pissing match over it, and arguing over it is a waste of breath IMO.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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