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Offlineteen
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Registered: 02/13/04
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Why does venom make you hallucinate?
    #2544445 - 04/09/04 07:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I've never been bitten by a venomous animal, but I have a friend that reckons mushrooms are evil because hallucination is a direct result of being poisoned. His reasoning is that he did a 'first aid' course where they told him that hallucination is caused by toxins such as what comes from mushrooms and venom.
I tried explaining to him about how the psylocybin replaces the serotonin but he says that's just something us druggos say to convince ourselves what we're doing is ok.

What he says really isn't terribly clever, but I would like to know why people who have been bitten by snakes report hallucination.


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: teen]
    #2544617 - 04/09/04 08:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

hallucinations can come in lots of forms, from something as deadly as delerium tremens to something benign as meditation. There's no correlation there. don't take my word for it or the other druggos, check it out for yourself.

www.erowid.org


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: teen]
    #2544634 - 04/09/04 08:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Alright, first of all your friend's wrong about mushroms. Now with that established, there are two types of hallucinogens: hallucinogens and pseudohallucinogens. Hallucinogens are drugs such as LSD, DMT, mushrooms, and mescaline. They they usually work by messing with serotonin, usually replacing it temporarily. These experiences are usually euphoric, spiritual experiences, and except in very high doses you can often tell the difference between the hallucinations and reality. Pseudohallucinogens are drugs such as datura, dramamine, probably venom, bad fevers and other poisons and conditions that make your body sick until it starts hallucinating. On these, you will often either feel the same or feel dysphoric, with more delusional impossible to distinguish from reality hallucinations.

From Erowid:
Quote:

Hallucinogens act directly on the central nervous system, but they may also affect other parts of the body. They have both physical and psychic activity. Their effects are usually short-lived, lasting only as long as the chemical remains at the point of action in the body. Pseudohallucinations - often indistinguishable to the layman from true hallucinations - may be caused by many abnormal conditions upsetting body homeostasis, or normal metabolism: fevers, fasting, lack of water for long periods, poisons, etc. Pseudohallucinations may often be of much longer duration than hallucinations.





And to sum it up, people who are poisoned by venom often hallucinate because it makes their body sick until it borders on delusional.


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: Ravus]
    #2544663 - 04/09/04 08:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Excellent answer man.  :thumbup:


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: teen]
    #2544808 - 04/09/04 09:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

although, some venom, like the venom in the Colorado river toad, actually has a true hallucinogen in it: 5-MeO-DMT. Somewhere in india, some people smoke the venom of some kind of cobra, I'm not sure what it's like, but you can probably find info. It is supposed to be more a a K like buzz.

Keep in mind, this psychoactive venom, is VENOM. If I want 5-MeO-DMT, I'll find it from another source.


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OfflineDoktarDemento
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: teen]
    #2545796 - 04/10/04 03:51 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Cobra and scorpion venom both have a history of use as a smoked hallucinogen in India and Pakistan, and possibly in the Southwestern states and Mexico, although details are sketchy as to what the effects are. heard scorpion was similar to mescaline, and that is the most i've ever heard about it.


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Edited by poochdusoleil (04/10/04 03:52 AM)


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: Ravus]
    #2545932 - 04/10/04 05:19 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Im pretty sure it's hallucinations aren't distinguishable from reality, while pseudohallucinations are when the chemical delivering them is taken in lower doasge. Correct?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2546680 - 04/10/04 02:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ledzepln86 said:
Im pretty sure it's hallucinations aren't distinguishable from reality, while pseudohallucinations are when the chemical delivering them is taken in lower doasge. Correct?




Say you take 1/8th of mushrooms; while you are seeing visuals, most people can, if they truely think deep, realize that they're not real, and can often look beyong them to see what's really there.

Now take some Datura seeds. You won't be able to know if the people standing in front of you are real, if the cigarette you are smoking exists, if the bird on your head is really there. Look on erowid for Datura (and dramamine) experiences to see this.

That's what I meant by indistinguishable from reality. Hallucinogens are trippy and visual, but you can realize what's there and what isn't. With datura, there isn't really anything trippy, you just don't know what the hell's going on with the delusional hallucinations that look so real.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: teen]
    #2547849 - 04/11/04 02:54 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

His reasoning is that he did a 'first aid' course where they told him that hallucination is caused by toxins such as what comes from mushrooms and venom.

Mushrooms arn't toxic tho - psilocybin comes around 450 places lower in the physical toxicity list than aspirin.


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OfflineHahzist
Surfing theWaves of Chaos

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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2549286 - 04/11/04 09:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Toxins is just a word. There is too much negative meaning attached to it to make people feel that hallucinating is "bad". Who cares if a snake bite makes you hallucinate? I mean if the venom is deadly, yeah, that sucks. But if it wasnt...what is the problem? Shrooms dont kill you, they make you hallucinate, and open your mind, thats all I "the druggo" needs to tell myself.  :thumbup:


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OfflineFatVsAsia
missing thehappy days...
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: teen]
    #2549945 - 04/12/04 03:27 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

venom kills you...


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Offlinelowercase
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2551367 - 04/12/04 03:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I would argue mushrooms ARE toxic, in a way. While they don't kill you, the adaptive value of them producing psilocybin is to function as a herbivory deterrant. Any animal that eats one is going to be incapacitated for a while and vulnerable to predation.

Ironic that we consume them specifically FOR the effects of their antipredator adaptation. By all accounts, lethal mycotoxins should replace hallucinogenic ones in an evolutionary sense, but humans are certainly not the main selective force on wild mushrooms.


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: teen]
    #2552678 - 04/13/04 12:44 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Many venoms are very powerfull CNS toxins, this is the reason for the hallucinations.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why does venom make you hallucinate? [Re: lowercase]
    #2553015 - 04/13/04 02:09 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I would argue mushrooms ARE toxic, in a way

Only in the sense that anything is toxic in a big enough dose. Water is toxic if you drink enough of it.

the adaptive value of them producing psilocybin is to function as a herbivory deterrant. Any animal that eats one is going to be incapacitated for a while and vulnerable to predation.

Nah, there's an article been posted that said sheep in scotland would eat psychedelic mushrooms to the exclusion of all other food stuffs then run around having a good time.


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