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Lobotomies and Shock Therapy
    #6152718 -

both are still used to this day.

on the prevalence of the lobotomy in the United States....

Quote:
The procedure was popularised in the United States when Walter Freeman invented the "ice pick lobotomy" procedure, which literally used an ice pick and rubber mallet instead of the standard surgical lobotomy. Leaving no visible scars, the ice pick lobotomy was heralded as a great advance in "minimally invasive" surgery, and was eventually done under only local anaesthesia which was accomplished through electroshock admistered to the patient moments before the procedure.

In a minimally invasive procedure, Freeman would hammer the ice pick into the skull just above the tear duct and wiggle it around. Between 1936 through the 1950s, he advocated lobotomies throughout the United States. Such was Freeman's zeal that he began to travel around the nation in his own personal van, which he called his "lobotomobile", demonstrating the procedure in many medical centres. He reputedly even performed a few lobotomies in hotel rooms.

Freeman's advocacy led to great popularity for lobotomy as a general cure for all perceived ills, including misbehaviour in children. Ultimately between 40,000 and 50,000 patients were lobotomised.


on shock therapy...

Quote:
ECT was a common psychiatric treatment until the late 20th century, when it fell into disuse as better drug therapies became available for more conditions. It is now reserved for severe cases of clinical depression and bipolar disorder that do not respond to other forms of therapy. When still in common use, ECT was sometimes abused by unethical mental health professionals as a means of punishing and controlling unruly or uncooperative patients. Many people came to view ECT unfavorably after negative depictions of it in several books and films, and the treatment is still controversial.


Now, lets say that it is 40-60 years ago, and you have been diagnosed with some disorder by a psychiatrist, and they reccomend that what you need to be considered "sane" is that they take an ice pick and a rubber mallet to your scalp.... or, if you are lucky, they will send a few thousand volts through your brain.

At what point did we give the psychiatrist free reign on defining what our society and what "normal" behaviour is?

It seems to me, that in the battle for complete, definable sanity among all races, sex, and ages, that we have given the psychiatrists free reign to hammer our society into whatever they wish....

how do you feel about that?

I might not be sitting here typing this if all of this was done with personal consent.... and it hasnt gotten any better. Much like the medival days where the church could label at will anyone as a heretic, the psychiatrists can label anyone (in recent years they have conditioned many to begin labelling themselves) as insane, and upon reccomendation to the state, can force you into "treatment" such as shock therapy and lobotomies, in the name of "creating a normal and sane society" per their definition of such.

I really just want this one question answered: If psychiatry and all of its practices are as effective as they claim, then why has the amount of "insane" or "imbalanced" people only increased since the inception of psychiatry?
If the drugs are so effective, why does the number of mentally ill people continue to rise?

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Re: Lobotomies and Shock Therapy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6153966 -

Quote:
psilocyberin said:
I really just want this one question answered: If psychiatry and all of its practices are as effective as they claim, then why has the amount of "insane" or "imbalanced" people only increased since the inception of psychiatry?
If the drugs are so effective, why does the number of mentally ill people continue to rise?




From K-Pax:

Quote:
Dr. Powell: On this planet, I'm a doctor, and you're a patient.

Prot: Doctor, patient, curious human distinction.

Dr. Powell: It's not your job to cure Howie, or Ernie, or Marie, or anyone else, it's mine.

Prot: Then why haven't you cured them yet?




You know that a doctor's job isn't to actually cure people, it is only to make them feel better for the time [being].


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Lobotomies and Shock Therapy [Re: demiu5]
    #6154950 -

So Psilo I'm curious:

Have you ever been to a psych ward? Ever witnessed an interview or therapy session with someone who's psychotic or been diagnosed with schizophrenia? If you've ever heard someone talk about hearing voices, or heard them tell you how they cannot go outside anymore because they're afraid someone is probing their brain, or that their neighbors are trying to kill them you might understand. Next time someone says their god you should look them in the face and go:"you're right, you're fine and normal, you don't need help". Psychosis and schizophrenia are real.

Society hammers us into a conformation. Thats basically the definition of society. I'm going to go out, rob a store, kill someone and speed home. If I get caught I'll simply reply: "Stop hammering me into your conformations".

How do you feel about that? No laws, norms...nothing. Do you think quality of life would increase or decrease?

Why has the incidence of psychotic disorders increased? Because we've adopted better standards for it's diagnosis, and as a society, we've started offering people help, and social support systems. It's people like you who would rather say: "old man with senile dementia? well next time he wanders off, we'll just arrest him for Jaywalking...because he's not sick". Someone who cannot function in day-to-day activities??? let them rot.

No one ever claimed cognitive medicines were a cure. THey restore individuals to normal levels of functioning.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Lobotomies and Shock Therapy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6154970 -

I agree with you. I myself have seen this shit firsthand. I was at one time so far into a drug induced psychosis from using speed and Dxm recreationally for several months straight(non stop) That I was admitted to a ward, lucky for me though when the doc asked if i wanted to be voluntary or involuntary i chose to go voluntarily cuz i was gonna go either way (voluntarily gives you more rights)Anyways I was admitted and giving a bunch of drugs (don't even know what all of them were!) That night I was screaming and running around my room cause people i thought were trying to kill me(the drugs made me worse) They had to give me a powerful sedative, and i was still awake in bed all night, just couldn't move. So now I'm seeing figures and hearing voices all of them scary as hell, and now i cant move or even scream or talk the whole night! The next day I tell my doc what happened and what i saw, and can you fucking believe it he gives me even bigger doses of the anti psychotics! So now I am in another world completely, just fucking a dead cell. I am pretty much this gone on shit for 16 days! The whole time I am trying desperately to get them to actually help me.  After about 3 days there I could see people who would act out they'd go into a padded room on a gurney and be tied down(a 6 yr old boy was like this everyday!!) And that boy would yell for hours on end about how people were hurting him and how he wanted his mom!! :frown: I also saw a woman who would get electro shock therapy everyday. she would walk out, and come back in a bed, and later would be in a wheelchair cuz she couldn't walk or barely move her arms!! So I (even though was not getting better) would act like I was not seeing things cuz they'd lower the does on these drugs for that. eventually i was declared sane(16 days later, i started acting better after 3 days!!) by time i was out of there i was put in a drug rehab program but luckily i was able to mouth my pills so i actually about a week or so was actually sane again!! I just needed to come down off the speed and dxm, not be givin crazy pills!! FUCKING BASTARDS!! 95% of the people in that ward were like me, just high not really crazy. That broke my heart, i almost went crazy because of those fucking quack jobs!!

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Re: Lobotomies and Shock Therapy [Re: badchad]
    #6155096 -

badchad said:
So Psilo I'm curious:

Have you ever been to a psych ward? Ever witnessed an interview or therapy session with someone who's psychotic or been diagnosed with schizophrenia? If you've ever heard someone talk about hearing voices, or heard them tell you how they cannot go outside anymore because they're afraid someone is probing their brain, or that their neighbors are trying to kill them you might understand.


Yes. Yes. Yes. and.....no. never met a person that actually wore a tinfoil hat, but I have met people that were on the brink of such behaviour.

Quote:
Next time someone says their god you should look them in the face and go:"you're right, you're fine and normal, you don't need help". Psychosis and schizophrenia are real.


Im not saying they aren't. I think you have completely missed my point here. I am saying that psychiatry and its practices are not effective, and go so far as to claim that they are actually harmful.
if you want to disagree with me, then talk to the person that posted right after you and negate their personal story.


Quote:
Society hammers us into a conformation. Thats basically the definition of society. I'm going to go out, rob a store, kill someone and speed home. If I get caught I'll simply reply: "Stop hammering me into your conformations".


Isnt that the courts, laws, and polices jobs? I dont remember asking psychiatrists to stop the widespread problem of bank robberies. When does breaking the law make you insane anyway? how many times a day do you break the law... BOOM your insane and unfit for society.

Quote:
How do you feel about that? No laws, norms...nothing. Do you think quality of life would increase or decrease?


I trust in societies ability to police itself, through law and consequences. Society should set the norms, not a small group of people called the APA and the writers of the DSM.

Quote:
Why has the incidence of psychotic disorders increased? Because we've adopted better standards for it's diagnosis, and as a society, we've started offering people help, and social support systems.


we have given the illusion of help. Psychiatry is a false science, it is all theory and in no way fact. Neuroscience is a science, psychiatry is a theory.
Psychiatry is a self preserving industry: give the appearance of a problem while offering the solution. infect people with a poison and sell the cure... but they arent even doing that.
How can you sit here and say that even in the face of an ever escalating population of certifiably insane and mentally ill people that psychiatry is effective?
We have made better doagnosis? ha! how about going and reading the diagnosis of such things as ADHD: cant sit still in class, talks out of turn, doesnt raise hand...... the symptoms of too much sugar, not a kid with a physiological malfunction.
i was at a general practitioners office once, and found advertising pamphlets for psych drugs. One was for anxiety and one was for depression, and after reading both pamphlets, the diagnostic symptoms of each were the side effects of the other drug. The anxiety drug caused grogginess, mild depression, and the depression one cause anxiety....

Quote:
It's people like you who would rather say: "old man with senile dementia? well next time he wanders off, we'll just arrest him for Jaywalking...because he's not sick". Someone who cannot function in day-to-day activities??? let them rot.


lets not get personal here. lets not start slinging ad hominems and making imaginary scenarios of what i would or wouldn't say. besides, this is just ridiculous and not even rooted in any logic whatsoever.

Quote:
No one ever claimed cognitive medicines were a cure. THey restore individuals to normal levels of functioning.


normal levels of functioning per psychiatrists standards.... dont you think in he last 100 years we have spent enough time, research and money to have found a cure for one mental disorder? If not, then why arent we placing our focus on a cure (if it is such a widespread debilitating phenomenon), instead of just drugging, shocking and cutting out parts of peoples brains?

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Re: Lobotomies and Shock Therapy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6252511 -

It's amazing what still gets done to psychiatric patients, even in 'civilized' countries.
In Holland the isolation cell is very popular. Supposedly you can only be put in there if you are a danger to yourself and others. But it is used a lot on difficult and rebellious patients.
When your manic it's hell to be in there. I was put in there without them even telling me where and why I was there. When I really acted up in the room, I drew a mushroom cloud on the blackboard above a city and wrote on it "Muslim brothers, please help me" (I'm not even Muslim). They busted in to my cell and put a sedative needle in my ass. I was already in the fucking cell! 8 days straight in isolation and I was never violent to anyone.
Also they blackmailed me into taking a heavy 4 week lasting anti-psychotic shot, or else they wouldn't let me out of isolation. That shot really messed me up, I had shaking hands and cramps and my back hurt for weeks.

I agree psychiatry is not a science, it's just what the consensus at that particular time is. Just look at how many changes it has gone through.


--------------------
futuretribe.space

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