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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic
    #606649 - 04/12/02 07:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

WEll I check in with five Universities in Florida today regarding where the cattle in the State of Florida came from, of which Mr. G claims that the Panaeolus tropicalis in Florida came from Cattle off of Spanish ships in Pineapple slips from storms wrecking boats along the Florida Coasts in the 17 and 1800s.


Here is but one response from the Department of Animal Husbandry at the University of Florida.

From Doctoer Glen Hembry.

See Below.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx

Subject: RE: Cattle imported to Florida

Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:36:27 -0400

From: "Hembry, Glen" HEMBRY@animal.ufl.edu | Block Address | Add to Address Book

To: "John Allen" mjshroomer@yahoo.com



I know of no cattle coming to Florida from Hawaii. Obviously the Spanish brought cattle to the southern US, but I don't believe any ever came from Hawaii.
Dr. Glen Hembry

-----Original Message-----
From: John Allen [mailto:mjshroomer@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 1:28 PM
To: Hembry, Glen
Subject: Cattle imported to Florida

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxx



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Anonymous

Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: mjshroomer]
    #606796 - 04/12/02 10:59 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Cool, point taken!!!

I am curious as to what is growing out in Mr. G's fields. He definetly has cyanescens growing, and appears to have something that MACROSCOPICALLY looks different to him growing in other fields, at different times of the year!!!

Field trip might be in order. I only live about an hour away from the guy.
I am very curious as to what is growing in these FIELDS.


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Anonymous

Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: mjshroomer]
    #606817 - 04/12/02 11:19 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

How would they get pineapples from Hawaii to Florida in the 17/1800's? There certainly was no Panama Canal, was ther another way through or did they go all the way around the bottom of south america? I would think any pineapples woud rot in the time it would take to get from Hawaii to florida in those days! Maybe I'm wrong, in a past life, I missed that era....


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,598
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Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: ]
    #606863 - 04/13/02 12:39 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah Max they went around Cape Horn....off the South American Coast.
Which was and still is some of the roughest waters in the world.
Alot of ships were lost going around the Horn.

I was a History major...lolz


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: Roadkill]
    #607349 - 04/13/02 04:24 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Does it seem to anyone else like this is an endless, unproveable set of theories?
Microscopic spore analysis [preferably with pics] is a bit more convincing, but not conclusive in my book.  To really get to the truth, I think you'd have to go the following route:

The paper is a bit dry, but for the gist, check out the gel photo on page 4 of this PDF file.  This work was done to examine the dispersion of Schizophyllum commune, and provides primer sequences and restriction enzymes that give differential patterns in several portions of the ribosmal/mitochondrial DNA.  These sequences were chosen as being hypervariable, meaning they will vary even within a species.
Of course, this work would have to be done 'under the table' or as a specific request to a diagnostic laboratory [helps if you know the techs :smile: ]. 

edit--ah, and very importantly, DNA can easily be extracted from even old, dried fruits.  I'm sure this won't happen until the technology becomes much cheaper and more available, so hang onto those fruits, Mr G!

http://www.biology.duke.edu/fungi/mycolab/publications/james.molecol2001.pdf 


Edited by Suntzu (04/13/02 04:35 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: Suntzu]
    #607598 - 04/13/02 11:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Microscopy is enough to differentiate the species!!!

Spore number, size, shape, color.
Cystidia size, shape, distribution, and coloration.

Tropicalis is 2-spored. Cyanescens and cambodginiensis is 4-spored. Combine this with the above differences and you have an ID.

Not to mention, the macroscopic differences in size, color, etc... grown on identical substrates in the identical conditions.


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: ]
    #607726 - 04/14/02 03:15 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

This isn't my area of expertise, but more what I was thinking in terms of molecular work, is identifying differences between the same species; as the paper did with S. commune, possibly giving answer to the 'where did they come from' question. I guess the main issue with Mr G.'s particular gripe is one of actual species identification, in which case, yeah, microscopy would be enough. But not nearly as fun! Now the whole B+ issue, that would be an interesting DNA experiment. B+ and ecuadors, actually.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/24/99
Posts: 8,946
Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: mjshroomer]
    #607729 - 04/14/02 03:24 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Seems as if most of what Mr. G brings to these forums is sort of counterproductive to our mission statement of spreading truthful information about psychoactive mushrooms.

Though, he sure has got us thinking!~

Keep on shroomin,
GGreatOne


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #607927 - 04/14/02 10:23 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I would also like to point out to evryone that all Psilocybe mexicana, psilocybe tampanensis, and any of the 13 speciies of Copelandia, (of which there are 4 known species of Copelandia in the Florida), that all of the above mentioned species look completely different than therir outdoor cousins when grown in Vitro.

To illustrate the point I am now going to post several photographs of Psilocybe samuiensis from their natural wild habitat along with a foto of a freshly picked collection and thenpost below them some images of their cultivated counterparts to illustrate how different their heights are when grown in doors as opposed to growing in their natural habitat in the rice paddie.

Mj see below:






And a picked collection below. In the fields, this mushroom never attains a height of more than three inches.



Now here is a picture P. samuiensis cultivated in a laboratory in Leipzig, Germany.



and here is one of Bio's in vitro grown P. samuiensis images where they all look like litle Psilocybe cyanescens. In this the caps become more curly than do the Psilocybe mexicana or the Psilocybe tampanensis shrooms grown indoors.



And one more from Teonanacatal. This image of Psilocybe samuiensis shows very tall thin five inches and taller mushrooms as opposed to the never taller than 3 inch sized samuiensis found in their natural habitat size.



See below for some Copelandia species naturally and their in vitro grown cousins.cousins.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: Suntzu]
    #607950 - 04/14/02 11:31 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Well, this is my third attempt to post these images of Copelandia and Pn. subbalteatus in vitro and natural images. It goes halfway through the post and then closes the pages saying they are not available. This is very frustrating when I have these posting problems and the slowness of this site.

First, here is an image of Copelandia cyanescnes from its Natural Hawaiian Habitat of decomposed manures.



And here is an average sized grouping freshly picked on Oahu Island at ualoa Ranch. This mushroom usuall grows from 4 to 5 inches in height and never taller in a natural habitat.



and here are two images of the same species cultivated in vitro. Notice how the mushrooms have attained a height of from 7 to nine inches tall when cultivated indoors.



and one more indoor image of Copelandia cyanescens:



ANd now here ae three fresh specimens of panaeolus subbalteatus in a different than normal natural habitat (Soil and mulch) as opposed to manure and/or rotted hay.





See below for a Psilocybe mexicana omparison.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: mjshroomer]
    #607953 - 04/14/02 11:39 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Here is a picture of Psilocybe mexicana by Airdog.

It too, like Psilocybe samuiensis (to which they are directly related to each other) is a short mushroom in their natural manured soil meadows and pastureland habitat. It too does not reach a height of more than three to four inches.





Edited by mjshroomer (04/14/02 11:42 AM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: mjshroomer]
    #607985 - 04/14/02 12:29 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I have been trying to post these images for more than an hour and a half. This is screwed. I get the images in and then try to post and it does this shit: Page not available,

This is a pain in the ass and not worth the time to post them. If they do not post this time then f--- it for this thread.

mj

Here we have Roger Heim's Psilocybe mexicana in a test tube. Very tall mushrooms.



And here an image by Una:



and Workman's P. mexicana. Notice on the in vitro grown P. mexicana's how the caps curl in a manner similar to Psilocybe cyanescens.



And now finally Psilocybe caerulescens from Mexico from a natural sugar cane mulch and soil habitat:



Another from the ground. Observe the large size specimen.



and one image by Roger Heim and Albert Hofmann's team of a foto of Psilocybe caerulescen grown in Vitro. See how the cap curls up like Psilocybe cyanescens does when it appears in a P. cyanescens natural habitat.



So I hope everyone realizes that Mr. G. who brought the B+ to us gets his credit but anything else he talks about is disinformation and misinformation and should never be counted as valid information or as a fact. He imagines everything he says except maybe for his recollection of bringing the B+ to the internet and to the THE and a few otehr vendors.

It appears that P. cubensis is one of the few in vitro grown mushooms which when grown in vitro still resembles their natural cousins from the wild. This has been a hard task posting these so now I can look at some other posts. Be sure to go to the beginning of this thread to view all of the comparison photos I posted here this morning.

remember we can all be better than we really are.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #608878 - 04/15/02 10:35 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yes you are correct in that statement Mr. GGreatOne234.

I spent an hour and a half or more posting the below comparison images for Mr. G and now no onw has looked at them so I am bring this up to the top again and will do so until someone else notices the comparison of indoor vs natural cultivation.

mj


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Anonymous

Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: mjshroomer]
    #608897 - 04/15/02 11:11 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Those are wonderful shrooms Mushroom John and I would like to pick some with you sometime and eat them together. I believe you that you are rite and MrG is not knowing what he speaks of when he says things like that but he is a great cultivation and supplier of stores to the community and he us good to.


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Offlinetomldp
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Registered: 10/03/01
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Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: ]
    #609002 - 04/15/02 01:58 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Thanx for all these pics mj !


--------------------
:laugh: Visit and support the Free Spore Ring Europe :laugh:


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: tomldp]
    #609210 - 04/15/02 06:03 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Well everyone is most welcome. I actually should have posted these images in a separate thread to show comparison images of natural grown outdoor specimens vs. indoor vitro grown specimens.

maybe we can get Thor to make a separate permanent thread in the general info section here in the shroomery.

maybe if someone wrote him and suggested this then it would be a good addition to the Shroomery Site.

Hey Thor, How about it.

Mj


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Anonymous

Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: mjshroomer]
    #609432 - 04/15/02 10:36 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks MJ for posting all the pics. I have been having lots of difficulty lately just loading this site, let alone individual forums, or posts. It is driving me nuts!!!

Anyone else having trouble this week accessing this site.


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: ]
    #609442 - 04/15/02 10:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

yeah I have had problems.....and I have cable.

something must be wrong.


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Anonymous

Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: Roadkill]
    #609487 - 04/16/02 12:12 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

The site has been double extra slow to load lately.


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OfflinePavlovs Dog
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Registered: 12/10/00
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Loc: Tacoma Washington
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: Mr. G's BS re:Hawaiian cattle, p-apple, P. tropic [Re: mjshroomer]
    #609546 - 04/16/02 01:10 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Well Mj, this post was placed in the bullshit 'venders' forum where people come to bitch and cry about venders... maybe move it to advanced or even better the pictures forum where it can be appreciated....

btw, great post, great info... thank you.



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