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Offlinekarlfinn
member
Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 162
Loc: Wild, Wonderfu,l West Vir...
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl *DELETED*
    #643135 - 05/24/02 11:14 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by karlfinn


Edited by karlfinn (05/24/02 01:56 PM)


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InvisibleRoadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,598
Loc: Snoqualmie, Wa.
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Flue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: karlfinn]
    #643165 - 05/24/02 11:34 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

wb..Karl

I closed your last thread cause of people flaming....not because of you.

I won't put up with any flames in this thread.....people.


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Offlinekarlfinn
member
Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 162
Loc: Wild, Wonderfu,l West Vir...
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Flue Fairy Mycological S *DELETED* [Re: Roadkill]
    #643360 - 05/24/02 01:54 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by karlfinn


Edited by karlfinn (05/24/02 06:07 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: karlfinn]
    #643389 - 05/24/02 02:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Karl,

Regardless of what people think of Mr. G you're still bringing more spores to the community! Thanks for what your doing and you have my support.


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Offlinejohnwsmoke
member
Registered: 03/17/02
Posts: 104
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: karlfinn]
    #643437 - 05/24/02 02:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Good luck with the new addition!! You are doing a kind service for the OMC

JWS


--------------------
Jon was a crippled, midget, lezbian boy- but he stood 10' tall with a KNIFE...


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Offlinekarlfinn
member
Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 162
Loc: Wild, Wonderfu,l West Vir...
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological S *DELETED* [Re: ]
    #643733 - 05/24/02 06:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by karlfinn


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Registered: 03/06/02
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Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological S [Re: karlfinn]
    #643767 - 05/24/02 06:59 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I think you will find that there will be a market for controversial spores. I think They will be more popular with the more advanced users who want to see these shrooms for themselves, rather than newbies.



--------------------


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OfflineOrchidman
enthusiast
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 205
Loc: Toronto
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: karlfinn]
    #644247 - 05/25/02 03:37 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I am a new grower I guess you could say. I still have to fruit and eat my first shroom, but I'm close to it now. I am interested in the controversy as well as the experienced growers. I have read a lot of postings about Mr G. I also think he has very good spores. A lot of members have written in support of him.

I want to grow Panaeolus subbalteatus in my garden in Toronto. It is one of the species native to my area. I like Mr G's pan subs because he claims they are very strong. I do not find this hard to believe. Pan subs are a group of many similar variations lumped together under one name. Some areas of the world produce psychotropic pan subs and some do not. Some are weak, some are strong. The strength also depends on the growing conditions and the substrata. I do not find it unbelievable that someone could find and isolate a strong one. I am willing to take a chance and order the spores.

I like the Bluefairysupply web site because it is very clear and easy to read and understand.



--------------------
I've been having psilly dreams lately


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: Orchidman]
    #645828 - 05/26/02 10:27 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Panaeolus subbalteatus is a weak mushroom and are not even really equal by weight amont to P. cubensis.
It takes up to five dried grams of Panaeolus subbalteatus to be equal to three grams of P. cubensis. It takes over one to two fresh ounces of Panaeous subalteatus to be equal to one fresh ounce of Psilocybe cubensis.

That means 5 to 6 doeses per pound or dried ounce. Very weak. Period.

They are not potent and again I reiterate this is a weak mushroom.

mj

There is no such thing as a potent Panaeolus subbalteatus mushroom.

On the other hand I am sure most of Karlfinn's sporepirnts of various species he sells are from good strains but do not be fooled by false advertising on the part of Mr. G. to who makes up stories to help in the sales of his sporeprints.

If Panaeolus subbalteatus was a potent mushroom 99% of every spore vendor would be carrying the spores for this species. IT is one of the most common of mushrooms (called the Weed Panaeous) in the world.


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Offlinevodgod
journeyman
Registered: 11/20/01
Posts: 55
Last seen: 10 years, 5 days
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: mjshroomer]
    #645910 - 05/26/02 11:17 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Mjshroomer,

I realize that you have had some problems with Mr. G, but why try to discredit him merely for the sake of discrediting? While it does seem unlikely that the subbalteatus species is as potent as Mr. G claims, you said yourself in a previous thread where someone wrote that the subbalteatus was weak in comparison to cubensis:

"Panaeolus subbalteatus has the same potency as Psilocybe cubensis.

From 3-5 grams dried and one feresh ounce to one and a half fresh ounce.

Makes for a potent tea."


In this thread, you say "Panaeolus subbalteatus is a weak mushroom and are not even really equal by weight amont to P. cubensis."

I think Mr. G generally does a fine job of causing people to dislike him by himself, without the need to skew the truth to do it...


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: vodgod]
    #645982 - 05/26/02 12:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

vodgod, one and a half ounces of fresh mushroom is a lot of mushroom to consume. Three to five grams or more of a mushroom is a lot to consume.

Of course all teas with that much weight in them would be a potent dose. However you do not need an ounce and a half of most other mushrooms to make a potent tea.

Liberty caps take 20 to 40 fresh mushrooms or 1 to 2 grams dried and so do P. stuntzii. That would be equal to 1/4 to 1/3rd of a fresh ounce. That makes for a potent tea.

BUt you can get three to four people high off of a freesh ounce of libnerty caps and /or from Psilocybe stuntzii (blue ringers) and only one person off on a fresh ounce or more of both P. cubensis and or Panaeolus subbalteatus.
Psilocybe cyanescens takes only one large shroom weighing maybe 1/4 fresh ounce to 1/6th of a fresh ounce to make a portent tea and they are potent shrooms.

One and a half ounces or from 3 to 5 dried grams even with P. cubensis as an average dose is not a potent mushroom.
At 5 grams it is equivalent to a mazatec ceremonial dosage. A dose most users never even achieve. And those who eat a quarter ounce of dried P. cubensis in oreder to get off or feel the effects have a tolerance build up which is not necessary for new users.

P. cubensis is basically one of the weakest magic mushrooms and the Pn. subs are even weaker than P. cubes. When they are of the same potecy as P. cubensis, which is rather very rare ever, that does not make them a potent mushroom.

To advertise the Pn. subs as a potent mushroom strain is not true.

mj

And again I have no propblem with Mr. G's B+ mushroom but I do with his bs in advertising them.

mj

And this was not a flame either. IT was about the potency of this mushroom. And it is about the fact that very few peo-le grow them because they are not potent or worth the cultivation effort.

I did write a paper in Psychedelic Illuminations onthe outdoor cultivation of this species. IT only requires haystacks in your backyard and some mycelia fromthe wild and they grow just like the azurescens do by transplanting them.

Now Una and a fww others have posted some images of this shroom in vitro and I can did up cheical analysis from several sources onthis mushroom if need be.

mj


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Offlinerungi
journeymana

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 212
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: vodgod]
    #646834 - 05/26/02 09:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i would disagree,
the active compounds in subbalteatus are distinct. Potency is realative to sensitivity to serotonin which occurs in subbalteatus natural chemical lab.(bioassay by Jeremy Bigwood who by the way never showed for the columbia fumigation lecture is he still alive anyone?) and the brain of the human psilocybin doesn't. I believe in Mexico they are prefered over cubensis by most Indians. Some strains are more potent then some strains of cubensis as far as entering into expanded conscienceness. I don't belive your comparison is acurate for anyone but yourself. Let the mushrooms answer this for each ego. Ban the vendors before they ban you.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: rungi]
    #647144 - 05/27/02 06:21 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Rungi, the Indians of Mexico do not use nor never have used Panaeous subbalteatus as a sacrement in a ceremonial context or for any other reason whatsoever. And regardless of Dick Schultes original beliefs that Panaeolus sphinctrinus was used by American Indians in Mexico, this is also not true.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

See Below

Schultes' notes on specimens stored on a single sheet in the herbarium confused Singer (1958). As noted earlier, Schultes had identified one of his collections? as Panaeolus campanulatus var. sphinctrinus, a possible divinatory mushroom. However, Singer then wrote that "the genus of Panaeolus was not used by the Mazatec Indians of the Huautla region either for magico-religious ceremonies or as a sacrament in shamanic healings." Additionally, Singer and Smith (1958) wrote, "we must insist, that the phenomena which belonged in the class of cerebral mycetism in the terminology of Ford (1923), and not fully identified (Panaeolus campanulatus var. sprinctrinus) (Schultes 1939, 1940), as being comparable with the hallucinatory-euphoric and lasting effects which have been described in literature as belonging to and coming from certain mushrooms of the genus Psilocybe. Aside from that we feel for certain that Panaeolus campanulatus var. sprinctrinus is not now and never has been used as a drug catalyst for divinatory purposes or religious ceremonies by present day Indians in Mesoamerica", nor was it used as a sacrament by their pre-Colombian ancestors.


Fig. 4. Rolf Singer's assistant Pal?cios, Rolf Singer (mycologist} & R. Gordon Wasson (Father of Ethnomycology) near Huautla (July 1957).

Schultes (1978) later wrote that "Wasson and Heim, and Singer and Guzm?n [all] failed to find Panaeolus campanulatus var. sprinctrinus in use and, as a result, have assumed that it should not be included in the list of hallucinogenically used Mexican mushrooms." The late French mycologist Roger Heim (1963), also asserted that "the Indians do not take Panaeolus campanulatus var. sprinctrinus in their rituals", and Singer (1958) after one short field trip, categorically stated that "Panaeolus campanulatus var. sprinctrinus is not used and perhaps, had been mistaken for Psilocybe mexicana Heim." The noted Mexican authority on the sacred mushrooms of Mexico, Gast?n Guzm?n (1977), called Panaeolus campanulatus var. sprinctrinus a "false teonan?catl" and P. Antoine (1970) claimed that this belief has spread and still exists. However, eight years later, Singer (1978) still believed that no species of Panaeolus belongs to the group of Mexican hallucinogenic mushrooms which were known as teonan?catl. In 1979, Schultes wrote that "certain shamans and curanderas of the Mazatec and Chinantec Indians do employ the mushroom known as Panaeolus campanulatus var. sprinctrinus in curative and divinatory ceremonies." These Panaeolus species are known to the Indians as tha-na-sa, shi-to and to-shka. They are bell-shaped or ovoid-campanulate shaped in the cap and appear to be yellowish-brown in color. Several of the early Spanish codices noted above that one of the yellow mushrooms described was called teonan?catl. The author latterfound that these two epithets used by the Mazatec were acruatlly used in describing Psilocybe mexicana.


However, as late as 1983, Guzm?n still maintained that "in Mexico, no Panaeolus species is used as a sacred or divine mushroom among the Indians of Oaxaca, and that includes the Mazatec, Chatino, Zapotec, and Mixes, and of the Indians in the State of M?xico, in spite of the fact that the species of Panaeolus are very common." Guzm?n also maintains that the Mazatec Indians say that Panaeolus species are not good to eat ("son malos"--they are dangerous or poisonous). Panaeolus species were collected independently as one of the sacred hallucinogenic mushrooms by two groups of investigators, Weitlaner?s group and by Schultes and Reko. However, one should consider that in a single collection of a particular species, there may be more than two species represented---for example, one species might superficially resemble another, as in the case of Panaeolina foenisecii and Panaeolus subbalteatus, both of which resemble one another macroscopically.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx

Mjshroomer

Again someone presents false information on this matter.

Whoever gave you this information does not know of what he speaks.

mj.

And as for Jeremy Bigwood, he lives in Mexico. i did see a flyer for him to speak here in Seattle at coffee house on Roosevelt Ave. Is this the lecture that you speak of?

mj


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Offlinejohnwsmoke
member
Registered: 03/17/02
Posts: 104
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Flue Fairy Mycological S [Re: karlfinn]
    #647180 - 05/27/02 07:00 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Please allow me to seem like a puppet for a moment...BF kicks butt!!

All things being equal (whatever I mean by that)...I want to say that karlfinn and Bluefairy have great products at very reasonable prices. It is a great place for newbs and the practiced alike to get a wide and expanding variety of supplies, substrates and additives. (PERIOD!)

I guess if people want to experiment with pan subbs that is their biz. Like Orchidman plans to do, attempting to fruit in his Canadien garder, it is supposed to be about learning and having fun..

MJ has shared his knowledge of this mushroom with us...we should appreciate this...we are blessed with many such experienced individuals...

now is the time to have fun with all this. And don't overlook the other strains and products BF has that can improve your experience at your HOBBY!

JWS


--------------------
Jon was a crippled, midget, lezbian boy- but he stood 10' tall with a KNIFE...


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OfflineGaNjAShRooM
===SPUN===

Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 2,954
Loc: Southern United States
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: mjshroomer]
    #647308 - 05/27/02 08:21 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i eat 60 grams of fresh cubbies all the time-sometimes 70-

thats not a hard trip for me-
i have 12 jars of these Mr. G subs-
i will test the potency for myself-i heard they were not as potent,but more speedy-

either way i will know-
i will post pics after the spawning stage-


--------------------
Cultivation Laws Of America Suck


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Offlinerungi
journeymana

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 212
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: mjshroomer]
    #647661 - 05/27/02 12:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Another positive thing from a culinary point of view subbalteatus taste good, they are not bitter, most other psilocybes are bitter. I don't undersat


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Anonymous

Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: rungi]
    #648017 - 05/27/02 03:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the mountain of info John, you are always a fountain of wisdom.
Too bad these spammers try to hi-jack your parade!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: rungi]
    #648161 - 05/27/02 04:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

In reply again to Rungi the farmer, see below from Andrew Weil. I again asked you who gives you this information?

?During the spring and summer months, when no Liberty Caps are available, Oregonians can use another variety of psilocybin mushroom in the genus Panaeolus. It is easily collected in quantities on piles of rotting hay stacked in fields in the Willamette Valley, where most of the population of the state lives. This mushroom, Panaeolus subbalteatus, though small, is twice as fleshy as the Liberty Cap. Yet the dose is the same, about twenty to forty mushrooms. That is to say, the Panaeolus is less potent. Moreover the quality of the effect is not as good. Particulalry when fresh, it tends to produce symptoms of mild toxicity. Some people experience nausea from it. I get an uncomfortable restlessness for an hour after eating it. This toxicity is reduced on drying, but not eliminated. Panaeolus subbalteatus is less effective at triggereing visual spectacles. Nonetheless, it is a popular mushroom during the warm months.?

From Dr. Andrew Weils book, ?Marriage of the Sun and the Moon.? 1980. Boston. Houghton-Mifflin Co.


They taste stringy and acrid. And people who eat them gag on them.

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (05/28/02 03:33 AM)


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Offlineindicaz
Lysol God
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 580
Loc: My Chair
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: mjshroomer]
    #648706 - 05/27/02 11:02 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Just wanted to drop in on the blue fairy discussion and say whats up, I ordered some poop from them and was impressed, with the poop and with there customer service!!! So since im a web designer and all I decided to make this simple banner for blue fairy supply... Hope you guys like it... took me awhile to draw ita ll up.

laterz
indicaz



Or

Which one is better?

tell me what u think? I was thinking of doing more , just for shiyts and giggles




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Anonymous

Re: MR " G" Spores are at Blue Fairy Mycological Suppl [Re: indicaz]
    #648717 - 05/27/02 11:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

That looks very good indicaz, with Karl's permission I'll add that to my links page.

Nudity!

-Boxtop




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