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Is Pedophilia "Sick?"
    #5874190 -

First, let me begin by saying that this is not a troll. It is a question that I've long had in my head and after reading this post (and niteowl's response in particular), I thought it would be an interesting one to ask.

Second, some ground rules. Please keep it respectful. I can already see this thread devolving into a pile of shit.

Ok, here goes...

We often hear about pedophiles in the news. Sometimes they're big internet porn stings, sometimes it's those Dateline busts that are both disturbing and ...let's face it, funny in a backhanded kind of way. But invariably the person accused is called "sick." As in "wanting to have sex with a fourteen year old is sick."

But one day I did something that most of America finds almost as repulsive; I thunk. And this thought went something like this:
______

I can accept that there are, in rare circumstances, 100% valid reasons to make certain sexual acts illegal. One of those is between a person who is capable of understanding the ramifications of their actions and another person who is not. I do not dispute that sex between a twenty five year old and a thirteen year old is wrong and should be illegal.

But is it "sick?"

When I hear the term "sick" in this context, I understand it to mean "one who is afflicted with a mental illness." Clearly an illness must be understood as an abberition, an abnormal trait. We call schitophrenia a "sickness" because it is a deviation from "good and normal health" and the same goes for any other illness.

But doesn't every sexually reproducing animal have an attraction to members of its own species beginning at the age when reproduction is possible (AKA "puberty")?

My line of thinking now begs the question, "Is calling a natural instinct 'unnatural' unnatural itself?"
______

To pull the question out of such a visceral topic, suppose someone killed the person you're closest to. Further suppose you found that person and killed them in revenge. Most people would agree that your actions were wrong, and they are since society cannot function if anyone is allowed to be a vigilante, but you wouldn't call it "sick."

I should also point out that I've had a few friends who have been victims of sexual abuse. This isn't an attempt to suggest that these people shouldn't be incarcerated or should be allowed to do these things. This is just an attempt to explore the ubiquitous "sick" label.

I'm bringing this to the group for several reasons. Maybe I'm missing something and a member could make a point I hadn't thought of before. I also decided to post this here because it's obviously not something you can discuss with casual friends without possibly alienating the hell out of them.

Thanks in advance for anyone who chips in. And, again, please keep it polite.

splif

PS: niteowl (in the aforementioned response) makes a very good point that (a) a pedophile is, by definition, someone who is sexually attracted to children and (b) the word "child" refers to a human between infancy and puberty. While he has an excellent point, I don't want to get hung up on the terminology. I'm interested in the "sick" label applied to people -- "pedophile" or otherwise -- attracted to those of a reproductive age.


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First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: splifner180]
    #5874230 -

I understand what you're saying and here's my $0.02:

We're naturally inclinced to wanna screw the brains out of anything that's appealing enough. If a girl as young as 13 has fully developed (physically), I can tell you I will definitely be checking that out.

Now the real test of evolution is to act on that urge or not. As modern human beings, we have no need to bang 13 yr old girls like we did whe n we first stood up on 2 feet. 13 year olds aren't mentally capable of understanding the deep emotions involved with something like intercourse, and if one happens to be, the law is stopping you from acting on it.

Pedophiles, in my eyes, lack that understanding of how serious it is to introduce someone that young into such a mature activity.

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: Newbie]
    #5874245 -

16+ = fuckable. :smirk:


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:heart:

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: theuser]
    #5874252 -

If you wanna fuck, and it's not rape, what's the big deal? Emotions involved in intercourse? Only if that's how you've been trained.

That said, gotta be at least as old as me and preferably well-to-do.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: splifner180]
    #5874257 -

NewbieShroomie writes:
"Now the real test of evolution is to act on that urge or not. As modern human beings, we have no need to bang 13 yr old girls like we did whe n we first stood up on 2 feet. 13 year olds aren't mentally capable of understanding the deep emotions involved with something like intercourse, and if one happens to be, the law is stopping you from acting on it. Pedophiles, in my eyes, lack that understanding of how serious it is to introduce someone that young into such a mature activity. "

Ok, so you're arguing a sort of second-tier "sickness." You're conceding it's natural to have the attraction. It's the inability to appreciate that we've evolved into something you might almost call "post-instinctual" that warrants the "sick" label?

Is this correct?

If so, I have to fall back on the murder/revenge posit. We understand, intellectually, that we can't have people running around killing each other. But frankly, if someone killed my best friend I would gladly spend the rest of my life in jail to settle the score. My actions would be, admittedly, sociologically counter-productive but ...would it be labeled "sick" if I did it anyway?

I don't think it would.

splif


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First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: splifner180]
    #5874262 -

theuser, let's go with the age of 13. Right around the time a human is able to reproduce. I want to keep this in the realm of "ok, it's clearly wrong but is it aberrant?" Sixteen blurs the fuck out of that line. =)

splif


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First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: daimyo]
    #5874267 -

Quote:
Emotions involved in intercourse? Only if that's how you've been trained.


Oh brave new world, that has such wonderful people in it!

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: splifner180]
    #5874278 -

A friend of mine is a summer camp counselor for 11-13 year olds. I went and saw her while she was there and was taken aback by some of the things that went on. Lot more sexual activity than I would have thought. Four families were asked to come and get their kids early because they were "exploring" each other and gettin some head, gettin gettin some head.

Is it wrong for the youngins to fuck each other? I mean shit, 13 is what, 7th grade? That's about the time things started gettin wild at my school. I admit 11 is a little low, but with the current state of pop culture, and the lack of parenting in our society, what should we expect?


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: splifner180]
    #5874284 -

daimyo, I'm far less interested in sexual activity between early teens. I take it for granted that it'll happen. Hell, who DIDN'T play show-me-yours-I'll-show-you-mine? I sure did. =)

This is about > 25 + 13 or thereabouts.

splif


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First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: daimyo]
    #5874290 -

daimyo said:
A friend of mine is a summer camp counselor for 11-13 year olds.  I went and saw her while she was there and was taken aback by some of the things that went on.  Lot more sexual activity than I would have thought.  Four families were asked to come and get their kids early because they were "exploring" each other and gettin some head, gettin gettin some head.

Is it wrong for the youngins to fuck each other?  I mean shit, 13 is what, 7th grade?  That's about the time things started gettin wild at my school.  I admit 11 is a little low, but with the current state of pop culture, and the lack of parenting in our society, what should we expect?


Haha, ya, 1st time I got laid was at camp, many times! :laugh:


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:heart:

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: splifner180]
    #5874306 -

I don't think it's a mental disorder.. But.
But:

In our society it is completely unlikely to have this occur without it being harmful to both parties. First and foremost the minor is burdened with a horrible secret. No matter how the "relationship", the secret is horrible because if it gets out there will most likely be absolutely ghastly consequences. If the minor wasnt traumatized, this will be done after the fact by the minor's parents/guardians and surroundings.
The minor, already in adolescent confusion, gets a horrible secret to keep and strong emotions/feelings which are totally taboo.

The adult in turn is denied the openness a mature relation warrants, and gets stuck between a horrible secret - and a horrible death in jail or a life like a social leper ever after.

If the adult does not fathom the gravity of the risks involved (social destruction of both the minor and the adult) and/or cannot restrain himself from acting on it, then that IS a mental disorder. And "sex tourism" involving minors is being a premeditated prowl of a sexual predator, the adult buying themselves safety at the expense of the minor.

So in my view pedophilia is NOT sick, but actually committing it in, or from, our culture IS.


Quote:
Is it wrong for the youngins to fuck each other?


13-yearolds ought to be able to "explore" eachother (same age) until they're blue in the face :sad: but no pregnancies may result from it. Yes, that means sex education and access to contraceptives.


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Edited by Asante (07/18/06 07:35 PM)

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: Asante]
    #5874362 -

eh, i think poeple have fucked up views on sexuality generally speaking. i think that some pedos are just taking negative aspects to the extreme.

if its a more natural thing and not like a predator/innocent type relationship then i personally don't give a flying fuck other than both parties are stupid not to seek out the most suitable partner (i think young poeple who are attracted to older poeple are often attracted for bad reasons, and visa versa old people to young) you really have to stick with your peers i think.

on a more personal and spiritual level, i think its totally gay to focus your attention on that sort of desire. no need to explore the culturally defined lower limits of whats possible when most poeple rarely experiance even middle type experiances. the very highest is barely known.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: theuser]
    #5874375 -

I had sex in the first grade with a classmate in a school bathroom, and I knew a few other kids who did the same. We were gifted kids within the miami public school system, didnt seem so strange at the time, believe it or not.

I have no idea what should be done legal wise. Establishing age of consent is a tricky thing which depends on the individual so I'm not surprised that they have over compensated. I don't want to see an 18 year old who had consensual sex with someone a few years younger than him end up on a sex offender list for the rest of his life but i dont want to see adults preying on children or adolescents.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: d33p]
    #5874914 -

Wiccan_Seeker writes:
"So in my view pedophilia is NOT sick, but actually committing it in, or from, our culture IS."

Good distinction, and very well put.

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: daimyo]
    #5875368 -

daimyo said:
A friend of mine is a summer camp counselor for 11-13 year olds. I went and saw her while she was there and was taken aback by some of the things that went on. Lot more sexual activity than I would have thought. Four families were asked to come and get their kids early because they were "exploring" each other and gettin some head, gettin gettin some head.

Is it wrong for the youngins to fuck each other? I mean shit, 13 is what, 7th grade? That's about the time things started gettin wild at my school. I admit 11 is a little low, but with the current state of pop culture, and the lack of parenting in our society, what should we expect?



I told a girl to pull her skirt and panties down when I was around 6. Oh and she did pull them down. yea..... following in the footsteps of my dad.


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http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

Edited by downforpot (07/18/06 11:16 PM)

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: splifner180]
    #5875497 -

Hurting people is sick. :shrug:


If said act was detrimental mentally/physically to the party in question, then yes, it is sick. If the first party found pleasure in doing so, it just gets worse from there.


An acquaintance of mine was 18 when he got his 17 year old girlfriend pregnant. He's a registered sex offender now, but ironically, he's a volunteer firefighter when he's not busy saving lives as a paramedic.

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: Adden]
    #5875890 -

To make a strange analogy, I once met someone who had a psychological illness that caused her to entirely miss context. If someone said "good morning" she'd hear that sentence, phoenetically, but think what was just said was "good mourning."

So when I hear the word "sick" in this context, I think "abnormal predilection for sex with a child." This makes the sickness an element of the thought. And IMO, a thought cannot be a sickness if that thought is 100% natural.

Make sense?

Wiccan_Seeker was perceptive enough to see where my confusion lay and pointed out that the "sickness" is inherent to the act, the deed of actually doing, not the desire itself.

And so she convinced me.

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: splifner180]
    #5875980 -

Semantics + the human condition = endless debate. =/

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: splifner180]
    #5876725 -

While see how we can say it just human nature. Allot of under 18 kids are looking very very adult these days.


But when i think of a pedophile i think of people that are into LITTLE FUCKING KIDS! When a 5 year old turns you on, that is in no fucking way natural, and YES that is SICK. I dont see how there can be any argument here.


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" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


Edited by Schwip (07/19/06 08:01 AM)

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Re: Is Pedophilia "Sick?" [Re: Schwip]
    #5876846 -

Hah. I see how parents let their little daughters dress these days, and you wonder why their is so many little girl molestors these days, 9 and 10 year old girls with full sized titties and getting periods, the amount of steroids being pumped into the meat and milk makes these girls develop at young ages.

Then the parents dress them up like little sluts. You dress like haloween dont be surprised if ghouls come and get ya.

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