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Trikaryotic mycelium?
    #5761471 -

Thought you guys might find this interesting. Most mushroom mycelium once 'mated' holds two nuclei in each cell. Note the two cells at the upper right end of the strand. They both have three nuclei. Disregard the random 'dots'. This is at very high magnification and those are imperfections in the glass lenses. I've been noticing this a lot with this strain. It's an albino Aus from Queensland i've been working with, having restored it from dry tissue. I wonder if the third nucleus has anything to do with the albinoism? It doesn't manifest in every cell, just in some.
RR


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Re: Trikaryotic myelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5761476 -

I <3 your microphotography. :smile:  I want to get into that.  It looks interesting.  I do not fully understand mycelium at a microscopic level, but would be very interested in this, and learning the reasons behind having more than two nuclei, which is odd as well.


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OP is now RP!  Read about it here!


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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5761489 -

very inteesting, are you above 1600 in magnification


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5761508 -

It's the 1000X objective with oil emersion, but the CCD camera is 5 megapixel, so I was able to get a bit of digital zoom to make it easier to see. From one end of the picture to the other is only five cells.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5761512 -

is there a specific order in which you find the the cells with the third nucleus? Like do you see three two cells, one three cell, three two cells etc? Or is it just a random occurence throughout the mycellium structure?


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To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5761580 -

RogerRabbit said:
the CCD camera is 5 megapixel


whoa... beats my little crappy thing


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5763929 -

Very interesting. This should be in advanced.

Can you tell us anything more about this phenomenon? Have you observed the live specimen growing? You might try using a coverslip with oil on it to keep it alive, or maybe the oil doesn't bother the myc much. I don't know.


-FF


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It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: fastfred]
    #5764046 -

fastfred said:
This should be in advanced.


roger is a tease like that, encouraging the no0bs to advance their education in this hobby


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5764173 -

I made up a dozen or so slides just using distilled water. I noticed the trikaryotic phenomona on all of them, but only about one in ten cells or so. I see no pattern to the three nuclei vs the normal dikaryotic cells.

Perhaps workman will see this and give his input. I know this isn't the first time it's happened, because I've seen it before, but not with this degree of regularity. I'm curious if his pf albino shows the same thing.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5764182 -

OMG this rocks.. I love cells (learned to love em in 7th and 8th grade science, where all we did both years is talk about cells) That is very strange and very interesting. I would love to see if you could some how make spore that have 2 nucleus's from the shrooms with 3 nuclei. Dunno if it would work like that. But if so it would be cool.. RR I've been reading alot of your stuff. You are seriously hardcore!! Keep us updated if you decide to pursue it farther.


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Going to miss the PNW gatherings.

I'm not here trying to make anyone feel stupid or to make myself feel good by putting ppl down. I am just here to help fellow shroomerites in there grows. I do this to keep my own knowledge fresh, and to help everyone succeed!

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5767623 -

Cool. Dikaryotic with some cells multinucelate. Cells exchange nuclei so it has to happen at some time. Really cool you got pics of it. :thumbup:

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: EonTan]
    #5767682 -

Those are amazing pictures. The clarity is outstanding. I personally haven't really looked carefully for this, but maybe I will need to in the future.

But I don't think this is that unusual. I seem to recall reading some journal article mentioning multinucular cells in mushrooms before. It just seems to happen, just like basidia with only 2 spores and basidia with up to 9 spores. Mushrooms do strange things. This could explain some of the chimera-like aspects of some mushrooms I've observed. I printed a brown spored mutant of pan cyan that had some gills producing normal black spores and some the brown. Also some of the albinos can have 1/2 pigmented caps or random pigmented blotches.

Neat.

Although it really wouldn't do much for your specific image, I have found that for thick microscopy specimens you can extend the depth of field using Helicon focus software.


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Research funded by the patrons of
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Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

Edited by Workman (06/19/06 11:30 AM)

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: Workman]
    #5770365 -

Interestingly, I came across this in "Essential Fungal Genetics" (by Moore and Frazer) shortly after reading your post.

"The nuclei of a heterokaryon are open to selection and can segregate into homokaryons (or heterokaryons with altered nuclear ratios) if adverse conditions impose selection pressure. That is, an individual with a new phenotype might segregate from a heterokaryon in response to selection, the mechanism being selective segregation of some of it's constituent nuclei into hyphal branches. This is a developmental process that allows the heterokaryon to adapt to it's environment using an evolutionary mechanism; hyphal branches that contain a nuclear ratio vest suited to the environment will be the ones to grow best. As a result, a heterokaryon is a very tolerant and adaptable mycelium."

That doesn't really say a whole lot, but apparently it's not all that unusual.


-FF


--------------------
It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: fastfred]
    #5775682 -

Homokaryons, that's cute. The three nuclei containing cells seem to be right in the same hyphal branch as the dikaryotic cells. I wish I had a way to separate the individual cells, but that would require knowledge and equipment that is outside my experience and tools. It will be interesting to see how this progresses.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5775852 -

RogerRabbit said:
It will be interesting to see how this progresses.
RR


This will be EPIC to see how it progresses.......!

Awesome work mate.... :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: _OttO_]
    #5780206 -

Here is something else from the same source...

"During migratory dikaryotization, anucleate cells and multinucleate cells are observed, so the dikaryotic state is not set up as soon as compatible cells fuse. Rather, ordered dikaryotic growth emerges after an interval of disorganized and irregular growth."


-FF

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: fastfred]
    #5780437 -

However, this is not freshly mated mycelium, at least not for a few years. This is mycelium from dry tissue that was rejuvenated from an old bag of dried mushrooms. Since the dry tissue it generated from was dikaryotic, these cell lines started out as dikaryons.

There's still a lot of bacterial rods attached to the growing mycelium even though none are visible in the above micrograph, so more cleanup is going to be required before a fruiting run is undertaken.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5786074 -

Well good luck cleaning it up - it would be spectacular to see these things going again, and to see if they all turn out to be albinos when they fruit.

These are the original specimines, picked around December 2005 -



--------------------
Some Travel Photos     -    The Story of the Kangaroo Poo Cube     -    Bucketing    -    Xmas KISS

Himalayan Mushroom Medicine    -    Tropical Visions    -    Super Volcano Cubensis  -    Myanmar Magic    -    Cambodian Copes

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5786167 -

RogerRabbit said:
Thought you guys might find this interesting.  Most mushroom mycelium once 'mated' holds two nuclei in each cell.  Note the two cells at the upper right end of the strand.  They both have three nuclei. Disregard the random 'dots'.  This is at very high magnification and those are imperfections in the glass lenses. I've been noticing this a lot with this strain.  It's an albino Aus from Queensland i've been working with, having restored it from dry tissue.  I wonder if the third nucleus has anything to do with the albinoism?  It doesn't manifest in every cell, just in some.
RR





This is very interesting bro!~

:smile:


It was also very interesting in seeing first hand how you got the dried fruits to start back up into healthy growing mycelium.

:grin:


Looking forward to seeing this albino Aussie fruiting bro!~


tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!

Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: Roadkill]
    #5791672 -

Good stuff RR. Can you share anything more about your dried tissue recovery, or a link if you've already posted on the subject?

OttO you should try to recover those specimens. It would be a new strain of albinos! They look like pretty nice fruits and they must be decent at growing in the wild. Probably don't have the problems some of the other albino strains have.


-FF

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Re: Trikaryotic mycelium? [Re: fastfred]
    #5791920 -

Those are the albinos that RR is studying.

I used the only fresh peice of tissue that I had -



in an experiment.

The experiment failed and I lost my only fresh sample, but I wasnt worried as I thought that it was going to be very easy to get the dry samples that I had saved back to life.

It turns out that it isnt that easy after all, and I dont do any work with agar at the moment, so I sent a few to RR to play with in the hope of reviving this unique strain.



Ive learnt my lesson - dont fart around with your rare and exotic samples.  :confused:

Good luck RR, and thanks heaps.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Some Travel Photos     -    The Story of the Kangaroo Poo Cube     -    Bucketing    -    Xmas KISS

Himalayan Mushroom Medicine    -    Tropical Visions    -    Super Volcano Cubensis  -    Myanmar Magic    -    Cambodian Copes

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Shop: North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com APE Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

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