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OfflineAbortfungi
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Contamination or what?
    #5679772 - 05/27/06 07:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hello everybody. This is my first post here at shroomery. Sorry bout my bad english or I'would not say bad but some specific slang amongst shrooms aren't so familiar so I'm trying to type so that ya guys can understand. And if you don't -> pardon please.

So I'm a first timer noob but it seems that this hobby will make success. I'm using a pf tek with vermiculite and rye powder. I think it is rye finnish word for that is "ruis", anyway we make bread of that specific powder. So I made 6 PF cakes and 5 of them are going to terrarium. One didn't grow after 2 weeks so I tossed it out. 2 of them are still colonisation room, which is sauna in this case.

Ok, cut the crap. My real question is about contamination risk.
Those three cakes were colonised 95% when they got birthed. It seemed that the mycelia had grown thru the dry verm layer on top of the cake, but didn't show any contamination then. Those have been at the terrarium for about 2 weeks now and humidity is about 80% all the time. Temp 22-25'Celsius. I'm waiting for the pins to arrive as the cakes aren't showing any weird colours or doesn't even smell bad. Mycelia has grown over the original mycelia layer as a form of clusters or clumps. Fuzzy but still firm(as mycelia would grow...I think...) and some amber white or light brown spots here and there. Not many of em but few so I figure those occur because the moisture. But what I'm interested is why doesn't those pins show their brownish heads? I'm growing p.cubensis mexico or that is what the label says at least. Only growth I've seen is those mycelia clumps and little pinhead like formations with crystallic shine and brownish on top of them. It seems like those are supposed to be pins but their growth is seized and the whole formation is dried. Also theres a bit of a ammonia smell at the terrarium at the morning when I ventilate my terrarium box. When ventilated and sprayed moist, the smell is shroomy, earthy like as it supposed to be. Hope you understand and I can put a pictures here if someone cares to check em out. I wait that someone really notices this message and will post them pictures when that happens. So, all you smurffs, help this noob please. Sorry bout long post. And thank you all for the GRRREEAT! forum, without you I could not experience this as there are no shrooms at the market here or not that I would ever buy one if there were...


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Contamination or what? [Re: Abortfungi]
    #5679819 - 05/27/06 08:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Cakes require a humidity as close to 100% as you can get. They'll dry out and have a very hard time pinning at 80%. If the cake is already dry, you can re-hydrate it by first washing it under the faucet in the sink, then placing in a tub of water overnight with something on top to hold it down. We call this dunking. Add some ice to the water or put in the refrigerator to prevent bacteria buildup during the dunk. After 12 to 24 hours, take it out, rinse well under the faucet again, and return to the fruiting chamber. Good luck.
RR


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OfflineRemainRandom50
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Re: Contamination or what? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5679847 - 05/27/06 08:50 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

after all the stated above as well,you may want to roll it in vermiculite (known as a dunk and roll) to prevent any other contams from entering.

also dont forget a fresh air exchange , about 2-3 times a day while they sit in the FC. Air+light+RH Levels = the most important for pinnning.


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OfflineAbortfungi
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Re: Contamination or what? [Re: RemainRandom50]
    #5682469 - 05/28/06 02:41 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks dudes. Is it still ok to try only put some plastic wrap or something to the upper end of my FC to seal the cover lid firmly?
I mean is there any chance that those cakes can still start growing shrooms if I make the atmosphere more humid. I think the lower humidity is because the lid of my FC isn't seal enough to keep the humidity inside properly. Other thing would be a shitty humidity meter that doesn't work properly.

Ok, if it doesn't do the trick should I cook some water for the dunking or will the tap water/h2o2 mix be ok? Tap water in finland is very clean and it is drinkable.

Another question flew my mind. I was such a hurry to birth these cakes(...don't know why... ) so I didn't realize if the bottom verm layer has to be sterilized? Those cakes aren't touching the bottom verm layer. Could the ammonia smell come from the vermiculite?

Ok heres some pics, and I appreciate if ya can help.






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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Contamination or what? [Re: Abortfungi]
    #5682617 - 05/28/06 05:49 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ahhh, there's the reason for low humidity. Vermiculite won't humidify your terrarium. You want perlite, not verm. You also don't want to seal your lid tight. Fresh air exchange is required for pinning. You want about two inches of damp, not wet perlite in the bottom of the container. After that, you can leave the lid crooked a bit so air can flow in and out. Just use tap water to dunk your cakes. I see no reason for h002. Wash the cakes under your faucet, then dunk in a container of water overnight. Put ice in the container to prevent bacterial blooms or place in the refrigerator. Rinse again after the dunk and place back in the fruiting chamber.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

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OfflineAbortfungi
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Re: Contamination or what? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5685541 - 05/29/06 02:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks RR. While you post your last message I took a risk and didn't wait for your reply. So I rinsed those two cakes under a faucet and they were dunked overnight under tap water without h2o2. Now, this morning I woke up and got a happy surprise, all three of them made pins!!! Two underwater and one at those same conditions as it was. So two was dunked and one didn't. What a relief and what a happy day this is!!! OHJOY OHJOY- Stimpy!!!!!

By the way. At our Finnish mushroom forum (trippi.info\taikasieniforum)we've got a great success of growing on vermiculite in terrarium. I don't really understand why people claim why vermiculite couldn't be a terrarium material. It doesn't evaporate as well as perlite but on the otherhand you don't have to put more water there because it will be moist much longer than perlite. One reason I put verm at the bottom is that it's so hard to find perlite here at Finland. Of course you can order from internet but why to do that if there's no reason to. Also it's quite expensive for a starter noob like me to buy when there's no hope of success.

I could put some pics of those pins here but I think you guys have seen em a lot so maybe not. But if you insist...


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Contamination or what? [Re: Abortfungi]
    #5685707 - 05/29/06 06:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The reason perlite dries out sooner is because it's throwing that water into the air with it's huge surface area, humidifying your terrarium to 99%. Vermiculite actually absorbs water. Instead of vermiculite, try lining the bottom of your tub with damp paper towels. You can even use cotton bath towels. They work as well as perlite, but remember to change them out every second day or so to prevent them from molding.

Congratulation on your pins!
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

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OfflineAbortfungi
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Re: Contamination or what? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5685782 - 05/29/06 08:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Can you still say for sure that vermiculite will do some damage to the cakes? I mean is there any other reason to start changing that bottom verm than the evaporation efficiency? I've watered the verm with a 5-10% h2o2 mix to prevent molding and giving the evaporation a little speed as h2o2 will evaporate to oxygen. It keeps the terrarium clean until first flush. Between flushes I'm going to change the verm or at least rinse it and add new water with 5-10% h2o2 in it. I also use plastic wrap pieces under the cakes to prevent them not to touch the h2o2 at the verm. I used foil before but changed it to plastic to prevent any hard metals of getting into shrooms. Don't know is there a real risk with tinfoil, just being precocious.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Contamination or what? [Re: Abortfungi]
    #5685891 - 05/29/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Sure, finish this flush first. Changing gears mid-project rarely works out. Just remember there are other, better ways to humidify your terrarium than verm. Paper towels are probably the easiest. The verm certainly won't damage the cakes since they're not sitting on it.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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