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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about?
    #5478645 - 04/04/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting story. The guy is totally correct. We are "Breeding our brains out", and nobody wants to do anything about it....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/04/04/doomsday.professor.ap/index.html

Quote:

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Talk radio and blogs are taking aim at a University of Texas biology professor because of a published report suggesting he advocates death for most of the human population as a means of saving the Earth.

However, Eric Pianka says his remarks about his beliefs were taken out of context, that he was just raising a warning that deadly disease epidemics are a threat if population growth isn't contained.

"What we really need to do is start thinking about controlling our population before it's too late," he said Monday. "It's already too late, but we're not even thinking about it. We're just mindlessly rushing ahead breeding our brains out."

Pianka, who has gotten vitriolic e-mails and even a death threat, said he believes the Earth would be better off if there were fewer people using up natural resources and destroying habitats.

The furor began when The Gazette-Enterprise of Seguin, Texas, reported Sunday on two speeches Pianka made last month to groups of scientists and students about vanishing animal habitats and the exploding human population.

That report was circulated widely and posted on "The Drudge Report," then quickly became talk radio fodder.

The Gazette-Enterprise quoted Pianka as saying disease "will control the scourge of humanity. We're looking forward to a huge collapse."

It said he weighed the killing power of various diseases such as bird flu and HIV but decided neither would yield the needed results.

"HIV is too slow. It's no good," he said.

Pianka said that doesn't mean he wants most humans to die.

However, Forrest Mims, an amateur scientist, author and chairman of the Texas Academy of Science's environmental science section, told The Associated Press there was no mistaking Pianka's disdain for humans and desire for their elimination in the speech he heard.

"He wishes for it. He hopes for it. He laughs about it. He jokes about it," Mims said. "It's got to happen because we are the scourge of humanity."

Pianka was expressing his own opinion, University of Texas spokesman Don Hale said.

"Dr. Pianka has First Amendment rights to express his point of view," Hale said. "We have plenty of faculty with a lot of different points of view and they have the right to express that point of view, but they're expressing their personal point of view."




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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinedaimyo
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Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5478656 - 04/04/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Everyone that complained about it should be on top of the list of people to go.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: daimyo]
    #5478699 - 04/04/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I have no problem with pre-conception population control, but I don't like the idea of playing mother nature and selecting which babies get to live and which do not. China has gotten their problem mostly under control, but India is going to be a world wide nightmare in the next twenty years or so... no way around it without a good crisis to kill off a large portion of the population.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: Seuss]
    #5478715 - 04/04/06 10:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

<<The Gazette-Enterprise quoted Pianka as saying disease "will control the scourge of humanity. We're looking forward to a huge collapse."
It said he weighed the killing power of various diseases such as bird flu and HIV but decided neither would yield the needed results.>>

That is true I think. Disease epidemic by itself cannot destroy enough of us and even if it did, what a corpse dump it would create. I wonder if he ever figured what the mass corpse impact would have on the air, environment, remaining animals and humans?
Also, IF there is to be a huge collapse - where is it? why hasn't it happened already? China is a perfect example - yet they live????
I remain uncertain that this thing has been sighted correctly.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: Seuss]
    #5478782 - 04/04/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i have never seen a problem with population sizes. i remember about 20 years ago there was a huge advertising campaign saying the world was going to go to crap soon if it wasnt handled. but we developed crops that yielded sooo much more food and what not. i think mother nature will always provide a path towards equilibrium.... even if that means killing 20% of the worlds population via disease.

as for disposal of bodies as mentioned above, if would be like it has been in every other great pandemic in the past. there would be fires running 24/7 until all the bodies were burned. i imagine we put more harmful agents in the air everyday than would be the result of burning one billion human bodies.


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No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: automan]
    #5479182 - 04/04/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

> i have never seen a problem with population sizes

Visit India... 'nuff said.

> i remember about 20 years ago there was a huge advertising campaign saying the world was going to go to crap soon if it wasnt handled.

... and, you think the world isn't going downhill pretty quickly? We have already crossed the peak and are picking up speed on the downhill swing.

> i think mother nature will always provide a path towards equilibrium....

I agree with you here, 100%. I doubt humans will be around once mother nature balances the equation.

> if would be like it has been in every other great pandemic in the past.

No, it wouldn't. There are several billion more people today than there were during the last flu pandemic. If the same percentage of people died today as died the last time around, the bodies would be stacked much, much higher. However, because people live so much closer together, and because of global travel, the percentage of people would also be much higher. The only saving grace is if science/medicine can mitigate the effects, which I find highly doubtful without more time.

> i imagine we put more harmful agents in the air everyday than would be the result of burning one billion human bodies.

The least of my concerns with corpse disposal is air pollution. It takes a lot of energy to burn a human body. That is a lot oil, coal, etc. It also takes a lot of time to burn a human body. Multiple the time it takes, the energy it takes, and the number of bodies, and you will start to see the problem. The system would fall apart leaving corpses rotting in the streets. Large pits and natural fungi would probably be the best disposal method... though I wouldn't want to be pulling ground water from the area. Not a very pleasent thought, but such is the reality of having to dispose of hundreds of millions of bodies.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: Seuss]
    #5479447 - 04/04/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

<<i think mother nature will always provide a path towards equilibrium....>>

<<I agree with you here, 100%. I doubt humans will be around once mother nature balances the equation>>

LOL! I think the traditional formula is:
- GAIA provoked slays offending Adam -

or that's what it was when I went to school...


There are a large number of borderline areas in our current bio environment. The real crunch occurs when too many of these coincide. Flu, and any other virus cannot equal more than 30% of our imminent health threats. Bacteria of nasty and pernicious nature are rising along with fungi and molds. Some we have not seen before and rapidly invading the brain. They gave new definition to "antibiotic resistant".
In natural environments like ours here, bacteria in the wild are becoming increasingly "resistant" also.
at any rate and on subject - I cannot think that more than 1/3 of the human population - varying percentages in varying sites - but no more than 1/3 not only by the epidemics, but also with attending casulaties from famine/violence/exposure etc. The hundred other things that get people as a result of the first thing they avoided...


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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InvisibleautomanM
blasted chipmunk
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: Seuss]
    #5479472 - 04/04/06 02:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> i have never seen a problem with population sizes

Visit India... 'nuff said.




visit siberia... 'nuff said
Quote:



> i remember about 20 years ago there was a huge advertising campaign saying the world was going to go to crap soon if it wasnt handled.

... and, you think the world isn't going downhill pretty quickly? We have already crossed the peak and are picking up speed on the downhill swing.




i dont see that at all. some areas of the world have huge populations, but some HUGE parts of the world have very little people.

Quote:


> i think mother nature will always provide a path towards equilibrium....

I agree with you here, 100%. I doubt humans will be around once mother nature balances the equation.




i suspect we are more resiliant than you think

Quote:


> if would be like it has been in every other great pandemic in the past.

No, it wouldn't. There are several billion more people today than there were during the last flu pandemic. If the same percentage of people died today as died the last time around, the bodies would be stacked much, much higher. However, because people live so much closer together, and because of global travel, the percentage of people would also be much higher. The only saving grace is if science/medicine can mitigate the effects, which I find highly doubtful without more time.




while we would have more people dead, we also would have more people working on disposal. we also have technologies now that they didnt have then... plastic comes to mind. in a strange universe, i could see teams driving pickup trucks through the streets with big vacuum sealers sealing bodies until the disposal team comes through.
Quote:


> i imagine we put more harmful agents in the air everyday than would be the result of burning one billion human bodies.

The least of my concerns with corpse disposal is air pollution. It takes a lot of energy to burn a human body. That is a lot oil, coal, etc. It also takes a lot of time to burn a human body. Multiple the time it takes, the energy it takes, and the number of bodies, and you will start to see the problem. The system would fall apart leaving corpses rotting in the streets. Large pits and natural fungi would probably be the best disposal method... though I wouldn't want to be pulling ground water from the area. Not a very pleasent thought, but such is the reality of having to dispose of hundreds of millions of bodies.




see above.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: automan]
    #5479658 - 04/04/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It's not necessarily about disposing of bodies. It's more about resources.

google "world population growth" and you'll see that the population is growing exponentially. With this in mind you'll see that the amount of time it takes the population to double is decreasing.

Look at how many people are impoverished due to lack of resources today. Now imagine that the population will double in a (relatively) short time.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: automan]
    #5479693 - 04/04/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I remember seeing a chart of population growth in the 60's in elementary school. The chart almost looked like it was going straight up by the year 2000. It looked scary. So far, the population explosion hasn't lead to any mass epidemics or famines.

Over the weekend I saw something on the history channel about the plague that swept through Europe in the 1300's. They even had a lot of scenes of the Flagelletes whipping themselves, roaming the country side, taking over churches and attacking Jews. A lot of Jews were burnt at the stake because of religious fanaticism. It looked pretty scary. Years later, it turned out to be good for laborers since there was a labor shortage and a lot of serfs could leave the land and even own their own land. This also helped lead to the Renaissance, too, according to the TV show. So a good ethnic cleansing seemed to be a good thing at the time.


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OfflineZombieJesus
Strangest

Registered: 03/10/06
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: automan]
    #5479866 - 04/04/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

visit siberia... 'nuff said


i dont see that at all. some areas of the world have huge populations, but some HUGE parts of the world have very little people.




Overpopulation isn't neccessarily about availability of living space. It's about availability and access to resources like clean water and airable land. We're never going to reach the point where we run out of livable space.


--------------------
This is an exercise in narcissistic paranoia.


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InvisibleautomanM
blasted chipmunk
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Registered: 09/18/03
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: ZombieJesus]
    #5480018 - 04/04/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

when we cant feed everyone, people will naturally starve to death. there is a reason there isnt over population of wolves... when too many wolves are born, the deer population (food) shrinks... and visa versa.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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InvisibleColonel Kurtz Ph.D
What What?
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: automan]
    #5480764 - 04/04/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

But it doesn't work that way with humas -yet. It might start soon if overpopulation and destruction of natural resources aren't stopped tho. But I still prefer to think that even tho it could stabilize itself like you said, it's not the best metod of living, and thus population control is an important matter to take into account if we want to leave a potentially comfortable place for our descendents :shrug:


--------------------
:whatwhat:

There's no better way to rock out than with your cock out!!


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Offlinederyl
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: Colonel Kurtz Ph.D]
    #5480871 - 04/04/06 09:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.

Over time, humans have accepted the idea that the Earth is ours for the taking, almost as if evolution stopped in it's tracks once man became aware of himself and his surroundings.

Man possesses a trait no other species on the planet has, the ability to drastically manipulate his own environment, and that of his co-inhabitants. With this ability comes great responsibility, one which few are up for assuming.

Population growth out-paces agricultural advances greatly, and that gap gets larger with every human born.

The Agricultural, Industrial, Medical, Technological, and Biotechnological revolutions have created a scenario where the number of babies being born (and surviving) and the number of people living much longer lives have skyrocketed. The less developed countries of the world (India, China, Mexico, North Africa, etc.) have imported technology from the modern world which make these advances possible, yet in many regions of the world, even with the technological advances, people lack the natural resources and infrastructure to properly use the technology they have been given.

This leads to dependency on weather seasons, and intensive subsistence agriculture (IE: slash and burn). If a crop doesn't come in, then millions die. If a plot of land is over worked and improperly cared for, desertification occurs, which means there is even less land for people to survive on.

Essentially, in order to support a population with the quickest doubling time in history, we are scavenging the Earth and setting ourselves up for a momentous crash.

The areas of the world where the population is most rapidly growing are the areas least suited to support more people, and they are becoming less suited daily.

I could go on much longer on the implications of such a collapse, which would span over every aspect of our lives, but in the interest of avoiding a ramble (too late) I'll finish by saying....

If we don't figure out how either support our future population, or do something to make the growth stop, we're screwed.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: deryl]
    #5481296 - 04/05/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The way i see it

Humans increasing
All other life decreasing

whats really happening is that our needs are increasing so we have been growing more crops which takes land and leaves less food for animals- killing off other life...all kinds of animals are going extinct, lots of fish washing up, so that we have more food for ourselves.

it won't be long and all that will be left on earth is just us.
NO DOUBT; think about it

well there still might be our slave species, cows and such but thats about it. i imagine zoo's will become popular once again. we will have some more bones to put next to dino's.

but honestly i think at about the time we start starving we will prob start eating each other. after that we will prob burn up due to no ozone, since we demo'ed all them tree's for more food.

the real point is, if we cann't support ourselves in just OUR own houses...provide food for ourselves....without stepping outside...thats when we are doomed. right now i see hydro as a small attempt towards that but houses are to small to support 1 human year round.

i dunno but we are screwed, we stupid, all we care about is the moment. we are selfish. lets all just get gangbanged in college and call it good seems the attitude.

what we need to be doing is teaching kids in school how to treat the earth that would be a good "start". all i remember was one day we had earthday wtf? forgot that shit as quick as it came.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #5481303 - 04/05/06 12:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

oh speaking of ozone, i just remembered its alege in the ocean that provides like 98% of our air. so as our fish die, and these HUGE FUCKING DEAD ZONES where no life can live in the ocean get even BIGGER. and we just sit and watch this shit i cann't believe it. and wHY because all we are thinking about is money, well i think we can like um sell people air some day and,

water we can sell that shit for some major cash too.

oh yeah we are going to power cars off of water....because we want to save earth right....well that makes alot of sence except we are SEARCHIN MARS for more water. so like as these cars burn up our water more money i guess.

everything just seems ass backwards in life...like some complete idiots are coming up with these ideas and laws....oh yeah thats right every law and idea created revolves around money...that sums it up.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: automan]
    #5481647 - 04/05/06 05:30 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

> when we cant feed everyone, people will naturally starve to death.

The problem isn't with what we put in our mouths, but rather what comes out the other side. Pollution is our killer, not lack of food. Well, pollution will lead to lack of food, but that is still a ways off yet.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleautomanM
blasted chipmunk
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: Seuss]
    #5482077 - 04/05/06 09:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i agree with you totally. i think that the best and most overlooked step people can do to help future generations is to only use biodegradable products... especially as the population grows. people come and go but things that we do that will be around for thousands of years is a very bad thing because it builds upon itself and doesnt return to the cycle of life. i dont eat at some fast food restaraunts that i love because they give me my drink or food in styrofoam. i try to do that in alot of areas in my life.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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Offlinezgbzgb1
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14317415 - 04/19/11 01:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

thats some fucked up shit


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OfflineJoe Joe
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14325241 - 04/20/11 09:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well shit, if we're bumping this thread anyway, I'd like to bring up a point that no one mentioned.

We assume so much - even to the point that we assume that we know how the evolution of the ecoshphere on a planet evolves over billions of years.  Who is to say that the rise of an intelligent and resource hungry species isn't the natural on the universal scale?  What better motivation for a species to SERIOUSLY pursue space travel and extraterrestrial colonization? 

Think about it.  The planetary consensus and commitment of resources needed to make a real effort toward colonizing another planet is not present now.  The only way that terraforming is going to become economically viable is if the resources are truly tapped (or very close) here on Earth.  And for all you idealists, I hate to say it, but commercial interests and the promise of profits are what will take us to the stars - not philosophical or logical motivations.


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