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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: KrizzKaliko]
    #14465403 - 05/16/11 11:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

true true

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Upton Sinclair


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OfflineKrizzKaliko
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: LightShedder]
    #14465435 - 05/16/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
true true

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Upton Sinclair




I tried to rep ya for that, was an excellent quote! But you've opted out of General kudos, so you get a post for it instead =D


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: KrizzKaliko]
    #14465562 - 05/16/11 11:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.google.com/m/url?client=safari&ei=QgjSTcC7AaT6sgeykZ68Aw&hl=en&oe=UTF-8&q=http://www.yourdictionary.com/arsenal&ved=0CDYQFjAG&usg=AFQjCNEDu_yHK33fGSw9nJORgg2CtXMXVg

Arsenal is a store or collection.

When I say nuclear arsenal it can be understood as the collection of nuclear programs.

I'm still hoping someone can prove that all will be peaceful with no electricity or humans.


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OfflineKrizzKaliko
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: LightShedder]
    #14465586 - 05/16/11 11:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:I'm still hoping someone can prove that all will be peaceful with no electricity or humans.




No one CAN prove that, it has been stated plenty of times, it will 'someday' happen. The argument was it would not be as soon as you seem to think it would be.

Your basically asking for proof to prove your claim wrong. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim =P

Dont start with backwards logic now! You were doing so well! :bigjoint:

:2cents:


Edited by KrizzKaliko (05/16/11 11:47 PM)


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: KrizzKaliko]
    #14465635 - 05/16/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

but who made the claim first, him or society?  The chicken or the egg?  we all have a feeling of safety that if the power goes out were not going to just blow up in 24hours, where does that come from?  Why hasn't anyone provided proof for that?  So when another view comes in we demand proof to even consider it, yet we've already accepted something else without it?


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: KrizzKaliko]
    #14465655 - 05/17/11 12:03 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

KrizzKaliko said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

LightShedder said:
lol I guess you're right. Thinking about the extensive nuclear arsenal that requires daily human maintenance just to prevent a complete ecological annihilation from occurring. It'd be silly to think that we could continue the way we are forever, always able to maintain said warheads.  When we go out, there's gonna be some nasty shit to follow our extinction on earth.





How do you justify your claim that people have an extensive nuclear arsenal that requires daily human maintenance just to prevent a complete ecological annihilation from occuring? 

Who exactly has these warheads that are so fragile?  How exactly do they cause a catastrophe if not maintained daily?  I've never heard of this- what do you base this on?




Its funny cuz I instantly thought of that cartoon with the little guy bangin' his hammer on the tips of all the missiles....

Really, as I understand it, those things have very precise ignition mechanisms, and to get one to detonate without doing it properly, is damn near impossible. They aren't as 'unpredictable' and fragile as many seem to think they are.




"You said *somebody* had an "extensive nuclear arsenal that requires daily human maintenance just to prevent a complete ecological annihilation from occurring".  Given that you've now retracted that statement, I'm having difficulty understanding how you attribute all this ignorance and malice to me when you seem to agree your claim was wrong.



Quote:

In addition, all of the manufacturing facilities around the globe that have deadly gases under containment that might be released into the atmosphere should the power fail and or the fuel supply cut off.





What are these "deadly gasses" that manufacturing facilities have that would be released into the atmosphere should the power fail or fuel supply be cut off?  I'm not familiar with any kind of storage vessel for particularly nasty gasses that require power to contain.  What are you referring to here?  Containers that vent anyways, like those for compressed nitrogen, et cet I suppose would release gas more rapidly if cooling isn't supplied, but that's obviously not a big deal for the environment- the gasses get released during use anyways.  Just stay out of confined spaces.  What are you referring to that manufacturing facilities store like this?"
Quote:

KrizzKaliko said:


Quote:

What are these "deadly gasses" that manufacturing facilities have that would be released into the atmosphere should the power fail or fuel supply be cut off?




Your missing something important John:

Quote:

you're just annoyingly demand "proof" for a rational claim because it doesn't come with stupid references.

questioning obvious facts and robotically saying "errrr wuddaya base that on, errrr wuddaya base that on, errrr wuddaya base that on?" thats quite annoying bud.




This is all the answer you need. He obviously is ok with making up his own facts, representing them as such, and then shout down anyone who asks for proof.

I would put money on it he is a Creationist as well.





I'm not demanding someone prove me wrong because I think I'm right, but rather because im honestly hoping I'm wrong.

Based on the above posts I'd day you guys owe some proof unless your admitting I'm right. (again, I dont know or care that this is true, rather I'm hoping it's not and just genuinely asking for proof that it's not, since you and John thought it was such a crazy idea.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: KrizzKaliko]
    #14465673 - 05/17/11 12:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
but who made the claim first, him or society?  The chicken or the egg?  we all have a feeling of safety that if the power goes out were not going to just blow up in 24hours, where does that come from?  Why hasn't anyone provided proof for that?  So when another view comes in we demand proof to even consider it, yet we've already accepted something else without it?




Bingo.

If they believe it to be true, they should provide evidence, as I was expected to.

Quote:

KrizzKaliko said:
Quote:

LightShedder said:I'm still hoping someone can prove that all will be peaceful with no electricity or humans.




No one CAN prove that, it has been stated plenty of times, it will 'someday' happen. The argument was it would not be as soon as you seem to think it would be.

Your basically asking for proof to prove your claim wrong. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim =P

Dont start with backwards logic now! You were doing so well! :bigjoint:

:2cents:




By refuting my claim, you and johnM clearly made your own and now I'm asking for proof.

Not in an offensive way as I feel like y'all asked for mine, but honestly in a "please tell me this really is a crazi idea for the earths sake" kind of way.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: LightShedder]
    #14465682 - 05/17/11 12:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

BTW it's just as silly to demand that I prove something like my claim as it is when I ask you to prove your claim is correct. There is no body if evidence out there describing what will occur exactly if mankind/electricity cease. That's why it's so annoying to demand proof when it should be obvious.


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OfflineKrizzKaliko
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: LightShedder]
    #14465736 - 05/17/11 12:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
BTW it's just as silly to demand that I prove something like my claim as it is when I ask you to prove your claim is correct. There is no body if evidence out there describing what will occur exactly if mankind/electricity cease. That's why it's so annoying to demand proof when it should be obvious.




That's slightly true. There IS proof that they have started implementing more safe features and unmanned plenty of stations. Japans reactor was decades behind, that's why it got so bad so fast.

Negative Feedback (through Doppler Broadening), among other safety features, are used in pebble bed reactors. Most US reactors have to be certified to have said 'Negative Feedback' option available to open in modern times.

Heres a link to the wiki on Pebble Bed Reactors, it briefly covers the newer versions of Negative Feedback, but a quick google will bring you even more results. It is because of these features, that i say that it would take longer than you think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor

Again, its those Negative Feedback mechanisms, that would cause it to take much longer than you think, barring any natural disaster that could speed up the process (by destroying the building, etc).


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: KrizzKaliko]
    #14465767 - 05/17/11 12:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well there's a glimpse of hope. At least they're acknowledging the potential dangers. That makes me feel better than believing that those with the power to create such forces are inconsiderate of their effect on the planet. I still think if were to be wiped out, it would likely be spontaneous and therefore we won't be preparing for it. It would take so much reconstructing and preparation to ensure that if we went out, things would just continue naturally without our creations impacting the order of things.

The more I think about it the more hopeless I feel.


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OfflineKrizzKaliko
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: LightShedder]
    #14465867 - 05/17/11 12:56 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
Well there's a glimpse of hope. At least they're acknowledging the potential dangers. That makes me feel better than believing that those with the power to create such forces are inconsiderate of their effect on the planet. I still think if were to be wiped out, it would likely be spontaneous and therefore we won't be preparing for it. It would take so much reconstructing and preparation to ensure that if we went out, things would just continue naturally without our creations impacting the order of things.

The more I think about it the more hopeless I feel.




And we find ourselves in complete agreement again :laugh2:

our universe is so big, so vast, so unknown, we couldnt ever possibly be prepared really. I mean, we could do what we can to keep Earth here after we leave, but really? Doom.

All it would take is some random comet or asteroid moving at speeds we've never seen before, and :goodnews:, Mankind is history. And thats one of the most 'unlikely' scenarios lol

Most likely it will just be  :septemberlol: on a much more massive scale. Like one of those gasses you are scared of being released BEFORE we are all gone lol


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: KrizzKaliko]
    #14465944 - 05/17/11 01:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for rubbing the nasty truth in my face! lol


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OfflineKrizzKaliko
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: LightShedder]
    #14467308 - 05/17/11 10:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I found this mildly on topic, at least to what we had been bantering about for the last page or so, tell me what ya think:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20063570-10391704.html


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: KrizzKaliko]
    #14470339 - 05/17/11 10:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think if they need a sample to use for vaccine research, they should do a number of logical things

A. Keep a few tiny samples secretly hidden. (<5)
B. Not have " the WHO's supply, 451 samples of smallpox virus being held by the CDC, and 120 stored in a remote Siberian town in Russia",

The latter one especially if they are concerned about "terrorists" getting a hold of some.  Not to mention, if they were to ever face a sudden outbreak, why are they so confident that they could magically come up with an antidote/vaccine in reasonable effective time? If they could come up with one quickly, then they ought to do it immediately then destroy all the samples of virus. Then we have a world full of smallpox vaccines and void of any smallpox virus! I like that idea!

Also, if smallpox is easy enough for a Muslim nomad to make, why couldn't they just cook up a new batch if an outbreak ever did occur?


Also, I was talkin with a buddy today and I thought of an easy solution to the nuclear power plant issue...

Have a computerized system in place with every facility that requires a password to be typed in every day. If the password is ever not typed in every day, then after 3 non-password-authorized days, the computer engages a deconstruction program on the reactors uranium/plutonium etc. with equipment installed into facility. This way, if were not around for 3 days it'd be a good indicator that it has got to be disabled within 3 weeks or however long the generators would last.

This couldn't be that much extra of a hassle when building a facility. Well worth the effort too. How cone the guys who build and design these things don't think of this?

Duh.


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Edited by LightShedder (05/17/11 10:18 PM)


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: LightShedder]
    #14470473 - 05/17/11 10:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Power plant deconstruction:
Phase 1: Deconstruction of machinery and parts, which are not required for "residual" operation. Preparation of further steps and infrastructure.
Phase 2: Deconstruction of large components in the containment building
Phase 3: Deconstruction of the pressure containment building and the biological shield
Phase 4: Deconstruction of the remaining contaminated parts.

I've read in mycelium running (stamets) that psilocybe cubensis mycelium can be applied to uranium to break it down into simpler less toxic compounds.


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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: LightShedder]
    #14470513 - 05/17/11 10:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i just thought of one, altho i can't remember what the topic specifically is anymore im thinking it was what would happen if electricity was gone.  Anyways what i thought of was undersea oil drilling and the caps and stuff because i remember they were spewing out alot of gas.  I think it was mainly methane or something which i can't remember how harmful that stuff is but there's also the oil to think about and the collapse of seabeds, which may screw up faultlines and possibly trigger earthquakes ect ect.  There was also a theory about the gases down there exploding or something and whipping out the life on our planet.  So anyways thats kind of a big one thats right up there with the nuke reactors altho its most likely more reliant on fuel than anything to keep it going


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14470653 - 05/17/11 10:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Im gonna look into that scenario and the design of those ocean oil pumps. There's probably too many things for guys like us to consider.


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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: LightShedder]
    #14470720 - 05/17/11 10:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

yah im not sure how it all works but i mean without human intervention it seems logical that eventually at least a few will fail.  I think i remember them telling us they had that bp well sealed shut and then it started spewing again in another spot or something like that.  Just seems like something they have to monitor to me and without electricity or fuel that won't be possible


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Overpopulation---Dangerous to talk about? [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14470763 - 05/17/11 11:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe without electricity, the pumps would just stop pumping altogether before they caused a spill? That might not be enough to prevent a spill. I'm gonna read about that one.


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