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deadheadjpc2000
Blade


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1,277
Loc: Emerald Triangle, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Virola Extract
#5381917 - 03/09/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hi, Fellow travelers, I pose a question: What if someone were to extract virola bark all the way to 100% alkaloids? What would be the ratio of 5-me0 to n,n ? I've heard that virola contains both. And the dosage would be..? Thankx and Peace
-------------------- Peace
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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I don't know any exact numbers, but 5-meo is so much more potent, I would judge your dosage completely based on 5-meo dosages. You really might not want to overdo that.
If anyone has any clues to alkaloid content of virola compared to mimosa and such, I'd be curious.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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LiveByFreedom
Catalyst


Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 652
Loc: Mountains
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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There are 12 or more species of Virola known to contain DMT and DMT-type alkaloids. The compounds appear mostly in the sap of the tree. The sap itself has been smoked in amazonian tribes to induce trance states. It's clear when it comes out, but quickly turns gummy-like and dark red. It's usually crushed into a powder if i remember correctly, for snuffs. It's supposed to be fresh too (might want to keep that in mind).
Virola's shamanic use remains in the western amazon and in adjacent parts of the Orinoco basin. This is different parts from Heavenly Highs by Peter Stafford.
Here's a quote about Virola from Plants of the Gods by Richard E. Schultes and Albert Hoffman:
"Indians who are familiar with Virola trees from the point of view of their hallucinogenic potency, exhibit uncanny knowledge of different "kinds" which to a botanist appear to be indistinguishable as to species. Before stripping the bark from a trunk, they are able to predict how long the exudate with take to turn red, whether it will be mild or peppery to the tongue when tasted, how long it will retain it's potency when made into snuff, and many other hidden characteristics... there is no doubt about the Indians expertness in recognizing these differences, for which he often has terminology."
So, i'm guessing you have to see a bio-assay of Virola and see which alkaloids are present, because it would take different extraction techniques. Sounds hard to extract different alkaloids from the same sap. It would be neat to have access to fresh Virola bark-sap, SOMEONE in the states has gotta be growin this stuff I will try my best to have a large greenhouse some day, hopefully these plants don't all go illegal. I'd have to leave. /stoned ranting
-------------------- "Everything is not as it seems." Eye
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deadheadjpc2000
Blade


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1,277
Loc: Emerald Triangle, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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This substance is rust-red colored, and does indeed sparkle like pure alkaloids. Only problem is...nobody (including the supplier) can offer content and dosage. Big difference in dosages between 5-moe and n,n, ! Sure would appreciate any suggestions or help. Peace and Thankx.
-------------------- Peace
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felixhigh
Scientist


Registered: 06/24/01
Posts: 7,557
Loc: Ly
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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tikhal has some good figures on the alkaloids in question.
FH
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deadheadjpc2000
Blade


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1,277
Loc: Emerald Triangle, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Virola Extract [Re: felixhigh]
#5386806 - 03/10/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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How do I access tikhal? I'm not familliar with that name.
-------------------- Peace
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felixhigh
Scientist


Registered: 06/24/01
Posts: 7,557
Loc: Ly
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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search on erowid, they have it online! www.erowid.com
FH
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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Re: Virola Extract [Re: felixhigh]
#5386920 - 03/10/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't believe it's in the online text. Rather, in the first half of the book, which you need to buy.
"The most thorougly studied Virola plant is the V. theiodora from the Brazilian Amazon. Its bark can run as high as 0.25% DMT by dry weight. And the flowers can be twice this level. 5-MeO-DMT is also present at sizable levels, and... NMT and 5-MeO-NMT..."
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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LiveByFreedom
Catalyst


Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 652
Loc: Mountains
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: Virola Extract [Re: felixhigh]
#5386949 - 03/10/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I couldn't find the alkaloid content of various Virola's through Tihkal (still looking), but i found this page on preparing Virola:
http://www.biopark.org/virola.html
-------------------- "Everything is not as it seems." Eye
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deadheadjpc2000
Blade


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1,277
Loc: Emerald Triangle, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Yes, I have knowledge of the snuff. "A mixture of 10gram virola th. 10x and 3gram edible lime was dissolved in water and left to evaporate for 6 days. A second 6 day evaporation left a light brown residue, which was then scraped and saved. Awaiting more info as to correct Ph level and dosage before testing begins". This would be the same alkaloid content, but extracted down to purest form. Might be interesting trying to inhale what was once meant to be insufflated! Peace and Thanks for the continuing support.
-------------------- Peace
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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Inhale?
Anyone know how well virola bark keeps?
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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LiveByFreedom
Catalyst


Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 652
Loc: Mountains
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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I think he means smoke the Virola resin.
-------------------- "Everything is not as it seems." Eye
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deadheadjpc2000
Blade


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1,277
Loc: Emerald Triangle, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Found some info that this extract is ( more or less ) equal parts 5-meo and n,n,. If this is indeed the case, can someone offer a suggestion for dosage? And a combo of this nature might result in what kind of trip? Thankx and Peace from Redwoods.
-------------------- Peace
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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A pure, alkaloid extract?
Judge only by the 5-MeO-DMT dosage. And start low to be safe. 5-10mg of 5-MeO is all it takes. While DMT will be over 30 to be quite nice.
So, if you try to get yourself a DMT trip out of it, you are going to probably have a horrible, terrifying 5-Meo experience. Just think of the DMT as a little extra flavoring, but in calculating dosages... dead weight.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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deadheadjpc2000
Blade


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1,277
Loc: Emerald Triangle, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Yes, I believe it is a pure extract. Looks Way more crystaly than the virola th. 10x resin I have. Same color, but richer, slightly darker. Thought it was n,n, , but upon further research, found out differently. At laest it was cheap-@ $60/gram. Thankx for the input. I figuered I should start with 10mg max ( maybe 7-8 ). This would be my first experience with either substance, so I won't have any comparision. But as always, I start out slow and work my way up.
-------------------- Peace
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Koala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
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If its a resin of some sort, it isn't quite what I had in mind. A higher dose would probably be good.
-------------------- You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!
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deadheadjpc2000
Blade


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1,277
Loc: Emerald Triangle, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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It's not resin, as in sticky. It is flakey and crystaline in appearence. I think 10mg will be my starting point. I have access to the required utensil ( bent-stem base pipe ), but I was waiting to see if anyone out there had ever dealt with this extract. P.M. me for further info on these two items. I think I'll wait a bit longer before experimentation begins. Peace to all
-------------------- Peace
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deadheadjpc2000
Blade


Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1,277
Loc: Emerald Triangle, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Question: Do you think it would be better to try this extract straight (base) or over a bowl of plant material? This latter option might give me an effect, but would be hard to judge actual dosage inhaled. And what would be the starting dose to mix with bowl? Thankx and Peace
-------------------- Peace
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