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OfflineHooty
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LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines....
    #2213476 - 01/01/04 05:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've got quite a few morning glory vines on my hands right now and I've heard somewhere, and I can't for the life of me remember where, that the leaves of the vine contain small amounts of LSA, just not nearly as much as the seeds. I tried using the search feature with the specs "lsa content leaves morning glory" or something to that affect and worded a few other ways and just got a bunch of post having nothing to do with what i searched for and many not even making reference to lsa nor morning glories. I couldn't find anything on erowid either. So my question is does anyone know anything about the alkaloid content of the leaves of morning glory vines? Obviously there's not a high enough content to warant eating them or anything or more people would, but is there enough to use say a couple ounces of leaves in an extraction of some sort? I'd be really grateful if someone could give me a good idea of the amount of LSA contained in morning glory leaves if there's any at all. Thanks.

Peace and Much Love.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: Hooty]
    #2213501 - 01/01/04 06:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i guess a typical acid/basic extraction should take off most if not all of the junk out of it!
do some reading, find the pKa of the alkaloid you look for and... :wink:


FH


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: Hooty]
    #2213512 - 01/01/04 06:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hah, and I didnt even think the seeds were worth it.... :P


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OfflineHooty
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #2213634 - 01/01/04 07:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have found the seeds to be stunningly worth it. The only trip that didn't really pan out was when I tripped with my girlfriend for the first time, she'd never experienced any psychedelics and I think because of a mixture of tolerance (I had tripped the weekend before) and me wanting to make sure nothing went wrong for her in her trip and thus not allowing myself to become very vulnerable to the effects of the seeds caused me to not experience much. Nausea is something you'll find you're own personal way to deal with. It can be a powerful experience that's for sure.

As for extracting Alkaloids from the leaves, I'm becoming very curious about the possibilities....I may have to do some experimenting when some of my younger plants get a little bigger and leafier. I wish it weren't winter I'd have a lot more to work with....

I figured an A/B extraction would give me a definitive answer one way or the other, but I'd like to have some solid information backing me first...Since it is winter and most of my indoor vines are smaller seedlings. Anyone know a good site listing known alkaloid content of the leaves?

Peace and Much Love.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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OfflineOCT
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: Hooty]
    #2215602 - 01/02/04 08:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

actually i've read that the foilage has no LSA and has a chemical that will make you very sick, i'll try to find some links... although i have read of people using the flowers in wine... i would just stick with the seeds


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OfflineHooty
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: OCT]
    #2215847 - 01/02/04 11:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm just curious of the posibilities....The vine having some type of chemical in it that could make you sick sounds reasonable, but I'd like to have that fact backed up...and do you think that any such chemical would make it through the extraction process? If that makes any since.... Anyway I'd just like to have more information on it to use as reference...


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Without love in the dream
It will never come true


Edited by Hooty (01/03/04 03:54 PM)


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Offlineneuro
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: Hooty]
    #2216562 - 01/03/04 01:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Look up argeryia nervosa on Dr. Duke's Phytochemical Database

It tells you chemicals found in the plants and what parts.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: neuro]
    #2216705 - 01/03/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Do you have a link for that?


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OfflineHooty
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2216763 - 01/03/04 03:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The site neuro was refering to is at http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/

Here's what it said about Argyreia nervosa:

Chemicals and their Biological Activities in: Argyreia nervosa (BURM.) BOJER (Convolvulaceae) -- Silver Morning Glory, Wood Rose

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chemicals

CHANOCLAVINE Seed: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

ERGINE Seed: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

ERGONOVINE Seed: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

ISOERGINE Seed: DUKE1992A
Hallucinogen 2 mg/man/day/orl CRC

LYSERGIC-ACID-AMIDES Seed: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

PENNICLAVINE Seed: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

STRYCHNINE Plant: DUKE1992A
Analeptic MAR ; Antiapneic 100 ug/kg M29 ; Antidote =Charcoal, Diazepam M29 ; Antihyperglycemic 25 ug/kg/4x/day/chd M29 ; Antioxidant PC27:974 ; Apertif DUKE1992B ; Canicide M29 ; Circulatory-Stimulant DUKE1992B ; CNS-Stimulant M11 ; Convulsant DUKE1992B ; Peristaltic DUKE1992B ; Rodenticide MAR ; Stimulant DUKE1992B ; Tonic M11



And I looked around more on the sight and found that it have info on Ipomoea violacea also, here's that:

Chemicals and their Biological Activities in: Ipomoea violacea L. (Convolvulaceae) -- Ololiuqui, Tlitlitzen

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chemicals

CHANOCLAVINE Seed 50 ppm; DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

CHANOCLAVINE-1-CARBOXYLIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

ELYMOCLAVINE Seed 50 ppm; DUKE1992A
CNS-Stimulant JBH ; Prolactin-Inhibitor JBH

ERGINE Seed 350 ppm; DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

ERGOMETRINE Seed 50 ppm; DUKE1992A
Abortifacient DUKE1992B ; Antiimplantation JBH ; Hemostat CRC ; Lactafuge JBH ; Oxytocic JBH ; Prolactin-Inhibitor JBH ; Uterotonic CRC

ISOERGINE Seed 50 ppm; DUKE1992A
Hallucinogen 2 mg/man/day/orl CRC



So according to this source Morning Glories don't have any active alkaloids anywhere but the seeds....but it doesn't mention them having any toxic substances in the rest of the plant, though it says that Hawaiian Baby Woodrose contains strychnine through out the plant, which is probably what OCT was thinking of.

Anyway this has been kind of disappointing to me since I was really rather hopeful that the leaves would contain some alkaloids even if not very large amounts. I'm still tempted to maybe try an extraction on some foliage just for the hell of it just to see if this site isn't possibly wrong, I mean I'm sure it's a very reputable source but everyone is wrong sometimes.....haha

Anyway I'm still open to more references if you guys have got them, never can hurt to learn more. Thanks for the help neuro. Peace and Much Love.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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OfflineHooty
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: Hooty]
    #2216772 - 01/03/04 03:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oh and just in case anyone's curious here's the info from that site on Rivea corymbosa :


Chemicals and their Biological Activities in: Rivea corymbosa HALL. f. (Convolvulaceae) -- Snakeplant

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chemicals

1,7-DIMETHYLPHENANTHRENE Seed: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

ALKALOIDS Seed 560 ppm; DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

CHANOCLAVINE Seed 40 ppm; DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

ELYMOICLAVINE Seed 15 ppm; DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

ERGINE Seed 100 ppm; DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

ERGOMETRINE Seed 20 ppm; DUKE1992A
Abortifacient DUKE1992B ; Antiimplantation JBH ; Hemostat CRC ; Lactafuge JBH ; Oxytocic JBH ; Prolactin-Inhibitor JBH ; Uterotonic CRC

ERGOMETRININE Seed 20 ppm; DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

ISOERGINE Seed 190 ppm; DUKE1992A
Hallucinogen 2 mg/man/day/orl CRC

LYSERGOL Seed: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

PENNICLAVINE Seed: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

PHENANTHRENE Seed: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.

TRYPTOPHAN Seed: DUKE1992A
Analgesic 750 mg/4x/day/orl/man M29 ; Antianxiety 500-1,000 mg/meal WER ; Antidementia 3 g/day WER ; Antidepressant 1-3 g/3x/day/orl/man M29 ; Antidyskinetic 2-8 g/orl/wmn/day M29 ; Antihypertensive JAF36:1079 ; Antiinsomniac 1-3 g/day WER ; Antimanic 12 g/man/day/orl PAM ; Antimenopausal 6 g/day WER ; Antimigraine 500 mg/man/4x/day M29 ; Antioxidant 125 ug/ml; Antiparkinsonian 2 g 3 x/day WER ; Antiphenylketonuric M29 ; Antiprostaglandin 250 pg/ml X12120812 ; Antipsychotic 12 g/man/day M29 ; Antirheumatic M29 ; Antiscoliotic ACS791:267 ; Carcinogenic CRC ; Essential JBH ; Hypnotic M29 ; Hypoglycemic EMP6:157 ; Hypotensive 3 g/day WER ; Insulinase-Inhibitor EMP6:157 ; Insulinotonic JAF36:1079 ; Monoamine-Precursor PAM ; Prolactinogenic PAM ; Sedative 3-10 g/man/day; Serotoninergic 6-12 g/day/orl/man MAR ; Tumor-Promoter JAF36:1079

TUBICORYNE Plant: DUKE1992A
No activity reported.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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Offlinemadog
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: Hooty] * 1
    #2218146 - 01/04/04 11:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

there is a good thread at the hiveo n the subject, its old. it was by someone namesd boxtop i think... who was a female hiver who died abut ayear or a few months ago. im probaly wrong about the name. she was extracting from wild morning glory plant material.

a hiver helped me out and provided me a procedure something like this, i tried it on smallscale, never filtered. the results were as expected

extract the seeds with some acetone, add some NH3 solution dropwise, small clouds of LSA will precipitate. the amount is so small that youre going ot need a centerfuge or at least to ahve to wait a while for it to settle. then you can suck off or decant most of the acetone and filter the solution, i think useing printer paper would be the best choice. patence is key. then it would be good to add a few grains of citric or tartaric acid to make it last longer.


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OfflineHooty
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: madog] * 1
    #2221231 - 01/05/04 07:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have yet to find the post you're talking about on the hive...do you happen to remember the title of the post?


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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OfflineHooty
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: Hooty] * 1
    #2221483 - 01/05/04 10:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Alright so I did end up finding a very interesting post on the hive by a member named halfapint from July of 2000 that reports an apparently successful attempt to extract lysergic alkaloids from the foliage of various morning glory vines.

I would repost the post here but I don't know if that's allowed or whatever. I really wish someone would give me a go-ahead to repost it I think this thread would benefit from it...but I don't suppose it really matters since this link should get you there:

https://www.the-hive.ws/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=38870&page=&view=&sb=&part=1&vc=1

The post gave me new hope that maybe my quest to make the leaves of morning glory vines into something useful isn't a stupid idea.

Peace and Much Love.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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Offlineneuro
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: Hooty]
    #2221500 - 01/05/04 10:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

as long as you repost it with everything intact, and giving credit where credit is do then it's fine.


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OfflineHooty
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Re: LSA content in Foliage of Morning Glory vines.... [Re: neuro] * 1
    #2221550 - 01/05/04 10:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

right on, well then the post came from a member of the hive (https://www.the-hive.ws) who went by the screen name halfapint. The original post was from 07-12-00 and I'll post it and some other posts from the thread which are informative that were made by halfapint. I'll list the date of the post before each post to kind of seperate them.

from https://www.the-hive.ws/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=38870&page=&view=&sb=&part=1&vc=1

07-12-00

Morning Glory Whole Plant Extract

Who says submerged culture of Claviceps is preferable to exploiting profuse native morning glories to get lysergic goodies?

SWIM wanted to check the morning glories of her native environment, on a hunch. The hunch came from persistent reports of allergy / toxicity at the touch of morning glory foliage, in Mesoamerica and in North America. Large effects from trace amounts is a lysergic specialty, and mg's don't have a bunch of other bad alkaloids in them. Everybody says morning glory seeds only, and then just from certain varieties.

So thinking such thoughts, SWIM hopped out and gathered up a bunch of wild plants, genus ipomoea. She performed extraction procedures on the first 4 spp. of wild or feral mg's she found, with 2 domestic varieties, blue and purple, for comparison.

So SWIM extracted in this wise: the air-dried plant material was macerated, then moistened with 0.1 N sodium carbonate aq. to free the base. The material was percolated in a column with 1 liter petroleum ether added dropwise over 6 hours. Dilute acid, SWIM said 0.02 N HCl, was used to extract the hopeful-amide from the nonpolar solvent, in three vigorous washings (200, 200, 100 ml) in a 2-liter bottle. Coincidentally, that same bottle was used as separatory funnel, by inverting it and carefully loosening the cap.

But that ain't the point. The point is, that SWIM worked under black light all she could, to see what was going on. She saw florescence in the layers, giving visual feedback on the progress of the separations. The more concentrated the alkaloid, the brighter it glowed, typical of the indole ring alkaloids. In this case, SWIM figured glow meant LAA, lysergic acid amide, because morning glories don't have any appreciable amounts of any other lysergic acid derivatives, nor any other indole alkaloids, nor any other alkaloids at all.

So after the brightly-glowing aqueous fraction was cut out, SWIM made the solution basic with ammonia, giving a flocculent precipitate which took forever to settle out. But it glowed.

SWIM did this on all 6 plant materials, and the situation was the same with all the extracts of morning glory whole plants. Making the same type extraction on crushed domestic seeds did produce a greater concentration of product, as might be expected.

But I says to Swim, I says look. The respectable books and sources and stuff all say it ain't true, you can't get lysergic stuff except from the seeds, and just certain kinds of seeds, and better you just go score Hawaiin Wood Rose and forget plain old morning glories, but you just proved them wrong. Six times out of six tries, you got glowing alkaloids from the leaves, and vines, and stems, and tendrils, and seed cases, and stuff like that all mixed together. So is somebody trying to hide something, or did you just get lucky?

SWIM says, well fuck that, the real reason to use morning glories is because there's only one compound worth worrying about, but if you use ergot you need to fool with seventeen different types of ergotosnotalines.

Well this is a cliff hanger, and SWIM isn't real happy about using ammonia because it makes the ppt. way too puffy and hard to filter for the next stage, but she just persisted with the same technique so all the batches would be treated the same, so she could compare them.

Next time I spot her, I'll ask her how it's going.
Half-a-Pint

Half a pint's a half a pound, a half the world around, around.


07-13-00


Re: Morning Glory Whole Plant Extract

I figure I can't get too specific with specifics. Certain aspects of my personal life may be sensitive to eg. cross referencing species abundance by geographical distribution et al. Dig? Morning glories are endemic to Southern woods, and grow as a predominant weed species in Midwestern cornfields. They grow in disturbed forest lands in North America generally. They grow in ditches. The Southeast has such an abundance of species, they even outnumber Central American species, the genus must be considered indigenous. Go downhill, look for a watercourse, you'll find them. There is even a degenerate red species which has lost its leaves and foliage, and grows on tree bark as a saprophyte. Also introduced species thrive, in all regions, when they get out.

The amount of plant material was ~100 grams in each case, perhaps a bit less because this was dry weight and herbaceous materials lose a lot of weight when they dry. Yes there were differences between the species, but as I mentioned I don't expect to provide this particular bit of documentation.

Just call me grumpy,
Half-a-Pint

Half a pint's a half a pound, a half the world around, around.


08-09-00

Re: Morning Glory Whole Plant Extract

OK, got a chance to do a little research in the best and most productive information repository on the planet, the old Hive.

Here is a really and truly Reference to show that my dream (mentioned earlier) was not merely the delerious hallucination of an acid-starved brain.

From the Chemistry Discourse, KrZ posted 02-25-2000 09:07 AM on the old Hive:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The last reference I have refers to isolation of ergot alkaloids from Ipomoea violoacea:

Moekatis et al, Biochem. Physiol. Pflanzen, 1973, 164, 248.

Seeds:
-pulverized seeds defatted in pet. ether for 5 hrs.
-1 g of this material shaken 3X (each for 1 hr.) w/ 20mL of (2g tartaric acid in 30 mL H2O, 70 mL acetone) mix
-combined extracts heated on H2O bath (55?C) to expell acetone
-tartaric acid soln. shaken 3X w/ anhydrous ether, then basified (pH 8-9) w/ NH4OH
-from this soln' alks extracted 3X w/ 10 mL DCM
-combined extracts reduced to 1 mL and chromatographed

Roots, Leaves, Stems:

-pulverized material (15g) wetted w/ 3% NH4OH
-extracted w/ 200 mL DCM in Soxhlet for 6 hrs
-condensed to 20 mL & shaken 4X each w/ 10mL 2% tartaric acid
-total of 40 mL soln. extracted 3X each w/ 10mL anhydrous ether
-tartaric acid extract made basic w/ NH4OH (pH 8-9) & shaken 3X w/ 10 mL DCM
-total of 30 mL DCM extract condensed to 0.3 mL & chromatographed...




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so there. I know, there's no results of a quant. nature in this brief excerpt, even as I gave no quantities, but the point is qualitative. There are ergotogoodies in m.g. vegetation, and in my experience that is the rule and not the exception.

Otherwise, why would the working pros who did this real published chemistry have bothered to mention extracting from the vegetation, in their peer-reviewed paper? They might have got a wild notion, like SWIM did, and done the legwork, like SWIM did, but if they got zero yields (unlike SWIM), they likely as not would have quietly let it drop when it came time for the writeup.

I haven't seen their paper and don't know their results. But by my guesses into scientist behavior, my bet would go that they found alkaloids also. No point in chromotagraphing 0.3 ml of nothing...

Half-a-Pint



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Half a pint's a half a pound, a half the world around, around.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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