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OfflineEntheogenings
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Compost?
    #5162929 - 01/10/06 02:28 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps I'm missing something really obvious here but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for even with the search function.

I've read in several guides that you can use compost as substrate but certain posts seem to contradict this. Is it at all possible to use compost rather than manure (unavailable at this point in time) as a bulk substrate to add spawn to then fruit off with a casing layer and if so which type of compost should I be looking for?

I have a small bag of 'bonsai compost' which is composed thusly; "Peat based forumlation... combining well composted bark, irish peat and other ingredients such as perlite and grit to enhance root development, can be used for various methods of growing bonsai plants including seedlings, cutting, grafting and layering... this product contains 30% peat".

Am I just being stupid, wasting my time or will this stuff actually do the trick?

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Compost? [Re: Entheogenings]
    #5162967 - 01/10/06 02:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

It needs to be a specially formulated compost. One of the sponsors- High Mountain Compost has some. Agar will (hopefully) start making the "myco-nitro" compost available soon.


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Quick WBS Prep

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OfflineEntheogenings
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Re: Compost? [Re: FooMan]
    #5163062 - 01/10/06 03:03 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Have you got any idea exactly what to look out for in the formulation? High mountain is unfortunately in the US and so it'll take a long time deliver, I actually need this in about 10 days absolute max, prefferably earlier as I've got some WBS that's almost done.

I'm also very weary of ordering large bags via the post as recently my parents discovered garden supplies and an empty syringe to which I could only explain were 'picked up for a friend and an ink refiller' and so they're on high alert for suspicious things and a large bag / huge parcel would look very dodgey. My only option really is to use local resources for now and bring them in the house disguised / hidden via a bag. Cheers.

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Compost? [Re: Entheogenings]
    #5163109 - 01/10/06 03:12 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

You will get alot of heat from other members for growing in your parents house, but maybe the laws are different wherever you are. If there are any kind of horse stables or pastures around your area, I would try to collect some good, weathered poo from there.

Also, if you find "Black Kow" compost in your local garden store, try that. I have heard mixed results from people who used it, but it's better than nothing.

If you can't find poo or Black Kow around, just use wild bird seed, rye, millet or any other whole grains and case them. They're not going to produce like dung, but they work great and you should be able to find at least one of those around.


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Quick WBS Prep

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OfflineEntheogenings
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Re: Compost? [Re: FooMan]
    #5163178 - 01/10/06 03:24 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Wow wow wow I never said I actually grow anything illegal, why would laws come into this?

The situation with my parents house is odd, I actually live on the flat above their house for now, and since it has no entrance all post reaches them before me. They do have access to this flat as well since my kitchen doesn't work right now so washing / food is sometimes brought up to me and they'll clean it on random occasions too.

Annoyingly my best friend owns the nearest stable and since telling anyone I grow these mushrooms is a big no no I'm not about to approach her for manure completely out of the blue. Ah well I guess the search is on, thanks for the lead with the black kow. If worse comes to worse I guess casings it is!

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Compost? [Re: Entheogenings]
    #5163252 - 01/10/06 03:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Entheogenings said:
Wow wow wow I never said I actually grow anything illegal, why would laws come into this?





I guess you didn't, did you? :smirk:

Tell your friend at the stable that your mother wants some poo for her rose garden. Good horse poo is hard to beat!

Good luck with whatever method you choose! :thumbup:


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Quick WBS Prep

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Invisibleagar
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Re: Compost? [Re: Entheogenings]
    #5163314 - 01/10/06 03:50 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

You will not get this done in 10 days, but for future referance.

I. Guidelines for calculating pre/compost nitrogen (N) content:
Calculate the starting N content of pile to be 1.5 to 1.7% before composting. The starting N for a synthetic compost formulas may be slightly higher than the wheat straw horse manure formulas. The percent N will increase throughout Phase I composting and Phase II and at spawning time the N content of the compost should be 2.1-2.6 %.

Knowing the N and % moisture of the bulk ingredients and supplements will increase the accuracy of the calculated and finished nitrogen content. If supplements are added by volume, occasionally weigh volume added to confirm calculated formula.

At the end of Phase I and again at the end of Phase II, compost may be analyzed for N, ammonia, ash and moisture. It is important to take a representative samples, several small handfuls thoroughly mixed. When taking a sample do not shake the compost.

II. Examples of Mushroom Compost Formulas

Horse manure pile
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Horse manure 80 T 50 T 1.2% 0.6 T
Poultry manure 7.5 T 6.0 T 4 % 0.24 T
Brewers Grains 2.5 T 2.5 T 4 % 0.1 T
Gypsum 1.25 T 1.25 T 0 0
59.75 T 0.94 ? 59.75 = 1.57%


Synthetic pile
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Hay 15 T 12.8 T 2.0 % 0.26 T
Cobs 15 T 12.8 T 0.3 % 0.04 T
Poultry manure 3.8 T 2.4 T 4 % 0.09 T
NH4NO3 0.3 T 0.3 T 32% 0.10 T
Potash 0.3 T 0.3 T 0.0 0.00
Gypsum 0.6 T 0.6 T 0.0 0.00
29.2 T 0.49 ? 29.2 = 1.68%


Horse manure-synthetic blend
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Horse manure 15 T 10.5 T 1.2% 0.13
Hay 7.5 T 6.3 T 1.1% 0.07
Corn Cobs 7.5 T 6.4 T 0.3% 0.02
Brewer's grains 3.0 T 3.0 T 4.0% 0.12
Poultry manure 2.0 T 2.0 T 4.5% 0.09
Urea 0.1 T 0.1 T 44.0% 0.06
Potash 0.2 T 0.2 T 0.0% 0.00
Gypsum 1.0 T 1.0 T 0.0% 0.00
29.5 0.49 ? 29.5 = 1.66%

III. Suggested watering procedures during composting:

Add as much water as possible without run off during pre-wet conditioning or during the first two turns. Avoid adding too much water early during Phase I, always be able to control moisture. Add only enough during next turn or turns to wet dry spots. Bring up compost moisture to desired water content by adequate watering just before filling.

During pre-wet it is advisable to flip or turn the compost every day. After the rick or pile is built, the compost should be turn every other day unless pile temperatures have not peaked.

IV. Changes in organic matter, carbohydrates and nitrogen during mushroom composting.

Soluble carbohydrates are simply adsorbed by the micro-organisms and it is converted into new living matter or provides energy for the cells. As these micro-organism grow energy in the form of heat is released.

As the pile heats to temperature above 150o F the activities occurring within the pile change from biological to chemical reactions. It is at these higher temperatures that carmelization takes place. Carmelization is the process where water is eliminated from the carbohydrates and carbon is concentrated. This process can be compared to boiling sap down to make maple sugar.

V. Phase I is considered complete when as soon as the raw ingredients become pliable and are capable of holding water, the odor of ammonia is sharp and the dark brown color indicates carmelization and browning reactions have occurred.

Moisture content at filling should be 70-73%. Water should drip from compost squeezed in the hand. But a good rule of thumb to follow is: the longer, greener or more coarse the compost then more moisture it can take. The shorter, more mature or dense the compost the less water it should have.

The shorter or wetter the compost, the more loosely it should be filled into the beds or trays. The longer or greener the compost, the more it can be firmed into the beds. Attempt to fill uniformly in both depth and compaction. Edges or sideboards should be packed slightly tighter, whereas the center should remain looser.

VI. Phase II composting has two objectives:

Pasteurization - elimination of undesirable insect pest, microbes and pathogens.

Conditioning - Creation of specific food for the mushroom and creating a selective and suppressive compost to favor the growth of the mushroom.
VII. Insure adequate ventilation during Phase II. When in doubt, ventilate. A flame should be burn at all times.

The higher the nitrogen content of compost, the greener the compost or the more dry weight at filling time, the greater the ventilation required. When outside temperature is high as in summer or early fall, more ventilation is required than when Phase II occurs during the cold winter weather. This is especially important when the grower does not have a forced air ventilation system.

VIII. During Phase II keep compost in the temperature range where microorganisms grow best (115-140o F).

Microbes convert ammonia and ammonia containing salts into protein and other nitrogen compounds the mushroom uses for food. The growth of these microbes depends on having the available food, adequate moisture, sufficient oxygen and suitable temperature. A shortage of one of these requirements will limit growth and often results in incomplete conditioning.

IX. Heat up (pasteurization) for insect kill early in Phase II (perhaps 1-4 days after filling) so as to avoid a second heating cycle of the compost.

A good indication that the compost is ready to pasteurized, is the subsiding of microbial activity, which is indicated by a decrease in compost temperature at the same air temperature.

X. After pasteurization slowly lower compost through the temperature ranges of the microorganisms. A general rule is to lower compost temperature no more than 4-5o F. per day.

Provided that enough food, water and oxygen the microbes will continue to grow. Different microbes use different compounds and grow at different temperatures. Therefore it is important to make sure all areas of the beds and room gradually drop through all temperatures ranges.

Thermophillic fungi grow at lower temperatures and are important because they are able to grow into denser areas of compost.

XI. Composting is considered compete when no trace of ammonia odor can be detected and the compost has a uniform flecking of white colonies of actinomycetes, called fire-fang. The N content on a dry wt. basis should be in the range of 2.0 to 2.7.




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OfflineEntheogenings
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Registered: 12/18/05
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Loc: North West; United Kingdo...
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: Compost? [Re: agar]
    #5163395 - 01/10/06 04:08 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Heh heh! I think it would take me longer than 10 days to even attempt that method! Thanks for the input, although I'm guessing you have to figure out prime content for yourself, aye? ; )

You certainly seem quite enthusiastic about compost, I'm guessing you're THE Agar then? Completely off topic and probably not the place for this but when you're myco-nitro is ready for release are you going to be shipping internationally and if so are we looking more along the lines of small scale use (5l, 10l bags) or will it just be larger volumes only? Thanks.

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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Compost? [Re: Entheogenings]
    #5163435 - 01/10/06 04:21 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

From a mixture of 1/3 nitrogen based products to 2/3 carbon based products. The compost was ready in less than 3 weeks and ready for spawning. Slap ya silly potency as well....

Edited by hotnutz (01/10/06 04:24 PM)

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OfflineGopal
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Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Re: Compost? [Re: agar]
    #5171971 - 01/12/06 12:33 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Thermophillic fungi grow at lower temperatures and are important because they are able to grow into denser areas of compost.





I don't mean at all to take away from the content of your post, but I believe this part is incorrect. Thermophillic organisms thrive at higher temperatures.

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