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Offlinefungophiliac
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bulk compost questions
    #4466793 - 07/29/05 12:38 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

so i have like 2 metric tons of manure composting in my yard... i dont know what it really wheighs but it fills 2 four foot tall by six foot square compost bins. the manure that i found is from an equestrian park where the bedding material is mostly sawdust and some woodchips. i supplemented the manure with about 10% fresh straw, prewetted for 3 days and built the pile as to the specifications in TMC. i compacted the sides and let sit for 6 days then stirred again. oh yeah i also added about 50 gallons of fresh brewers grain from the pub for nitrogen supplementation.
my questions are these
1} the amount of straw i am using is well under the recomended levels of 90% outlined in TMC. i didnt chop or prewet the straw any more than the manure, however, and i worry that it will not be decomposed enough(maybe a good thing since there is so little for structure) by the end of the composting. also there is so little that any carbon left intact in the straw will not be enough to invite competitors(methinks) what is your opinion
2} if the compost is not porous enough after it is done can i use perlite to increase aeration in the substrate. i do realize this would require different moisture balancing.


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4466972 - 07/29/05 01:11 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

is finding wheat straw a problem?
get a bale of grass hay, it's not optimal, but it's better then nothing.
cardboard is also good roughage if not composted too long.
and, i hope you are using gypsum in that compost.


you might send a pm to agar, he knows.


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Offlinefungophiliac
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: deanofmean]
    #4467013 - 07/29/05 01:19 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i am using gypsum just havent got to the second turn where it is called for yet. finding wheat straw is not a problem i just found a farmer who has an early cutting so it is even fresh. however it costs money and i skimped on it unknowingly. now i am trying to fix a possible fuckup


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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Invisibleagar
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4467043 - 07/29/05 01:24 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I. Guidelines for calculating pre/compost nitrogen (N) content:
Calculate the starting N content of pile to be 1.5 to 1.7% before composting. The starting N for a synthetic compost formulas may be slightly higher than the wheat straw horse manure formulas. The percent N will increase throughout Phase I composting and Phase II and at spawning time the N content of the compost should be 2.1-2.6 %.

Knowing the N and % moisture of the bulk ingredients and supplements will increase the accuracy of the calculated and finished nitrogen content. If supplements are added by volume, occasionally weigh volume added to confirm calculated formula.

At the end of Phase I and again at the end of Phase II, compost may be analyzed for N, ammonia, ash and moisture. It is important to take a representative samples, several small handfuls thoroughly mixed. When taking a sample do not shake the compost.

II. Examples of Mushroom Compost Formulas

Horse manure pile
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Horse manure 80 T 50 T 1.2% 0.6 T
Poultry manure 7.5 T 6.0 T 4 % 0.24 T
Brewers Grains 2.5 T 2.5 T 4 % 0.1 T
Gypsum 1.25 T 1.25 T 0 0
59.75 T 0.94 ? 59.75 = 1.57%


Synthetic pile
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Hay 15 T 12.8 T 2.0 % 0.26 T
Cobs 15 T 12.8 T 0.3 % 0.04 T
Poultry manure 3.8 T 2.4 T 4 % 0.09 T
NH4NO3 0.3 T 0.3 T 32% 0.10 T
Potash 0.3 T 0.3 T 0.0 0.00
Gypsum 0.6 T 0.6 T 0.0 0.00
29.2 T 0.49 ? 29.2 = 1.68%


Horse manure-synthetic blend
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Horse manure 15 T 10.5 T 1.2% 0.13
Hay 7.5 T 6.3 T 1.1% 0.07
Corn Cobs 7.5 T 6.4 T 0.3% 0.02
Brewer's grains 3.0 T 3.0 T 4.0% 0.12
Poultry manure 2.0 T 2.0 T 4.5% 0.09
Urea 0.1 T 0.1 T 44.0% 0.06
Potash 0.2 T 0.2 T 0.0% 0.00
Gypsum 1.0 T 1.0 T 0.0% 0.00
29.5 0.49 ? 29.5 = 1.66%

III. Suggested watering procedures during composting:

Add as much water as possible without run off during pre-wet conditioning or during the first two turns. Avoid adding too much water early during Phase I, always be able to control moisture. Add only enough during next turn or turns to wet dry spots. Bring up compost moisture to desired water content by adequate watering just before filling.

During pre-wet it is advisable to flip or turn the compost every day. After the rick or pile is built, the compost should be turn every other day unless pile temperatures have not peaked.

IV. Changes in organic matter, carbohydrates and nitrogen during mushroom composting.

Soluble carbohydrates are simply adsorbed by the micro-organisms and it is converted into new living matter or provides energy for the cells. As these micro-organism grow energy in the form of heat is released.

As the pile heats to temperature above 150o F the activities occurring within the pile change from biological to chemical reactions. It is at these higher temperatures that carmelization takes place. Carmelization is the process where water is eliminated from the carbohydrates and carbon is concentrated. This process can be compared to boiling sap down to make maple sugar.

V. Phase I is considered complete when as soon as the raw ingredients become pliable and are capable of holding water, the odor of ammonia is sharp and the dark brown color indicates carmelization and browning reactions have occurred.

Moisture content at filling should be 70-73%. Water should drip from compost squeezed in the hand. But a good rule of thumb to follow is: the longer, greener or more coarse the compost then more moisture it can take. The shorter, more mature or dense the compost the less water it should have.

The shorter or wetter the compost, the more loosely it should be filled into the beds or trays. The longer or greener the compost, the more it can be firmed into the beds. Attempt to fill uniformly in both depth and compaction. Edges or sideboards should be packed slightly tighter, whereas the center should remain looser.

VI. Phase II composting has two objectives:

Pasteurization - elimination of undesirable insect pest, microbes and pathogens.

Conditioning - Creation of specific food for the mushroom and creating a selective and suppressive compost to favor the growth of the mushroom.
VII. Insure adequate ventilation during Phase II. When in doubt, ventilate. A flame should be burn at all times.

The higher the nitrogen content of compost, the greener the compost or the more dry weight at filling time, the greater the ventilation required. When outside temperature is high as in summer or early fall, more ventilation is required than when Phase II occurs during the cold winter weather. This is especially important when the grower does not have a forced air ventilation system.

VIII. During Phase II keep compost in the temperature range where microorganisms grow best (115-140o F).

Microbes convert ammonia and ammonia containing salts into protein and other nitrogen compounds the mushroom uses for food. The growth of these microbes depends on having the available food, adequate moisture, sufficient oxygen and suitable temperature. A shortage of one of these requirements will limit growth and often results in incomplete conditioning.

IX. Heat up (pasteurization) for insect kill early in Phase II (perhaps 1-4 days after filling) so as to avoid a second heating cycle of the compost.

A good indication that the compost is ready to pasteurized, is the subsiding of microbial activity, which is indicated by a decrease in compost temperature at the same air temperature.

X. After pasteurization slowly lower compost through the temperature ranges of the microorganisms. A general rule is to lower compost temperature no more than 4-5o F. per day.

Provided that enough food, water and oxygen the microbes will continue to grow. Different microbes use different compounds and grow at different temperatures. Therefore it is important to make sure all areas of the beds and room gradually drop through all temperatures ranges.

Thermophillic fungi grow at lower temperatures and are important because they are able to grow into denser areas of compost.

XI. Composting is considered compete when no trace of ammonia odor can be detected and the compost has a uniform flecking of white colonies of actinomycetes, called fire-fang. The N content on a dry wt. basis should be in the range of 2.0 to 2.6.


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Offlinefungophiliac
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: agar]
    #4467137 - 07/29/05 01:39 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

how do you test for N content after ingresients are mixed and composting? and how can i tell what the N content of my manure is when i get it? and how do you think i may be able to fluff my compost up if it is to dense for cultivation


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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Offlinefungophiliac
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4467403 - 07/29/05 02:42 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

*bump*


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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Invisibleagar
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4467698 - 07/29/05 04:13 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fungophiliac said:
*bump*




Sadly once a pile is cooking - like baking a cake - it is tough to change things. You can increase "N" by adding more manure. You can increase fiber - by shredding a bale or 3 of wheat straw with a chipper/shredder - then mixing & turning it into the pile.


--------------------


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Offlinefungophiliac
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: agar]
    #4467781 - 07/29/05 04:44 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

yeah but even then at least according to TMC the straw would have to be presoaked for like 5 days before composting can begin... at the end i would probbly have too much undercompostd straw and that is a concern already
my propsed solution to this would be to use sometthing like perlite to help aerate the substrate.
as for N i think i ve got enough in there. but again it would be nice to know how to measure or calculate it.


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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Invisibleagar
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4467792 - 07/29/05 04:51 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

http://compost.css.cornell.edu/calc/rightmix.html

Perlite would not be a good idea.


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Offlinefungophiliac
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: agar]
    #4467888 - 07/29/05 05:56 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

thank you very much... if this compost turns out to be too dense is there anything you can think of that may save it?


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4467898 - 07/29/05 06:13 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

cellulose. not joking.
i am currently experimenting with recycled office products for growing shiitake.
as i mentioned before cardboard.


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Invisibleagar
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4467906 - 07/29/05 06:21 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Again - rent a gas powered chipper/shredder, then shred a few bales of wheat straw & mix in. Wheat straw that is shredded very fine will begin to bio-degrade very rapidly, because it is so small. Other option is to do the same with weathered high fiber h/poo, or both.

You do not want it degraded to a dirt like consistancy.

You want a very HIGH fiber content.  :thumbup: :grin:


--------------------


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Offlinefungophiliac
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: agar]
    #4467914 - 07/29/05 06:32 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i see... that helps alot agar. also if i am going to rent a chipper shredder i might as well do a bunch...i am looking at buyuing 20 #55 lb bales to start new compost for next batch. should i use this horse manure as a supplement as outlined in TMC since it is mostly sawdust and compose my pile of 90% straw and 10 sawdust/manure?


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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Invisibleagar
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4467919 - 07/29/05 06:40 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Use the tables in the post somewhere above to determine your pile content. Cubes are dung lovers, so "N" should be around 2.7.

If there is a micro-brewery around you - a truck load of spent brewers grain is a good thing - to add to the pile.

Realize also, unless dried - once a compost substrate is at its prime, it goes downhill - if not used ASAP. As microbial activity will continue if its moist, plus it is a chore to keep gnats & bugs out.

With about a 5% moisture content, it looks like this.

Custom made bags, from spun bonded polyfil landscape cloth.


--------------------


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Offlinefungophiliac
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: agar]
    #4468066 - 07/29/05 08:36 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

may i ask how you had those made?


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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Offlinefungophiliac
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4468083 - 07/29/05 08:45 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

and also if you may re-pasteurize directly in those?


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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Invisibleagar
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4468100 - 07/29/05 09:02 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

buy this

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_...ode=07-570349-2

hire sewing done

yes - you can re-pasturize inside these bags


--------------------


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Offlinefungophiliac
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4468142 - 07/29/05 09:21 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

do you use submerged water pasteurization with those or rather bulk steam?


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: fungophiliac]
    #4468184 - 07/29/05 10:01 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

OLD Pine needles work very nicely as texture. coz their old they dont have no resins, theyre perfect to give texture to those more nutritious fine shits.


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Offlinefungophiliac
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Re: bulk compost questions [Re: Shampioenier]
    #4469939 - 07/29/05 05:33 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

arent they too acidic though.... i guess you could just use more gypsum


--------------------
why are there so many more horses asses than there are horses?

if you can't duck it, fuck it.
-the makers of duck tape



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