Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlinekillswitch
psychonaut

Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 29
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: mushroom compost [Re: Anno]
    #1232432 - 01/19/03 09:35 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

my bad. i searched for it but i forgot to change the default value of 1 week.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: mushroom compost [Re: Anno]
    #1232437 - 01/19/03 09:41 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>But NEVER in a compost designed for the growth of A. bisporus.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

ANNO is 100% correct. Having made a little cube compost myself. No peat is introduced into the formula.
6T  :tongue:
.................................................


Psilocybe Cubensis are habitat specific. Meaning, they cannot grow in the wild, unless their habitat provides a suitable environment, along with sufficient natural nutrients. Over the millennia, they have evolved inherent genetic traits best suited for their continuous survival in specific geographic area's they successfully inhabit.

All fungi feed by absorption of nutrients. Because of the huge range of potential nutrient sources, fungi evolved enzymes suitable for the specific environments in which they are generally found. The range of enzymes, though wide in may species, is not sufficient for survival in all environments.

Psilocybe Cubensis excrete a complex array of genetically predetermined enzymes for digestion. The enzymes are present in multiple forms, based on a single inherent genetic sequence, and include a range of isoenzymes, which arise from different inherent genetic sequences.

Simply stated, Psilocybe Cubensis excrete enzymes into the organic material in which their underground mycelia (root) system naturally grow. Those enzymes degrade nutrients there, into simple soluble forms of sugars and amino acids, which are then easily absorbed into the mycelia network. Resulting in them acquiring all essential elements with which to grow fruit bodies, and spores (seed) by which they propagate their species.

It is common knowledge that most strains of Psilocybe Cubensis flourish in select warm moist habitats worldwide, associated where horses, cattle and water buffalo naturally spread bovine type manure. Consequently, Psilocybe Cubensis developed inherent genetic traits, enabling then to excrete specific enzymes best suited to enable them to specifically dissolve, digest and take up nutrients available from bovine type manure, and/or soil enriched with it.

Therefore, Psilocybe Cubensis own inherent genetic traits attest that bovine type manure alone, or soils highly enriched with it, is best suited to their nutrient needs, in the wild.

Taking that fact, one step further. Aged leached dry bovine type manure, when aerobically composted together with a small percent of other select fruits, vegetables, grains and straw provides an even more enriched super nutrient source for cultivation of Psilocybe Cubensis . Moreover, a compost of this type provides an ideal moist subsurface habitat (substrate) that, Psilocybe Cubensis mycelia will colonize faster than any other.

By preparing compost, you are creating an ideal medium for mycelial growth. Basic mushroom compost is made up of wheat straw, horse manure and gypsum (calcium sulfate).

Guidelines for calculating pre/compost nitrogen (N) content:
Calculate the starting N content of pile to be 1.5 to 1.7% before composting. The starting N for a synthetic compost formulas may be slightly higher than the wheat straw horse manure formulas. The percent N will increase throughout Phase I composting and Phase II and at spawning time the N content of the compost should be 2.1-2.6 %.

Knowing the N and % moisture of the bulk ingredients and supplements will increase the accuracy of the calculated and finished nitrogen content. If supplements are added by volume, occasionally weigh volume added to confirm calculated formula. At the end of Phase I and again at the end of Phase II, compost may be analyzed for N, ammonia, ash and moisture. It is important to take a representative samples, several small handfuls thoroughly mixed. When taking a sample do not shake the compost.

There are a variety of optional ingredients that may be added. A brief outline of some materials used in making composts follows:

Straw:
serves as a carbon source (carbohydrate) source wheat - considered the best - contains xylan oat, barley - break down more rapidly than wheat rye - breaks down slower than wheat also corn cobs, oak and beech leaves, etc.

Other Carbohydrate Sources:
Rice straw, molasses, brewer's grains, cottonseed meal (provides the fatty acid - linoleic acid -which is reported to stimulate yields.)

Manures:
nitrogen source, provides organisms essential to composting horse - most commonly used, fresher the better poultry - higher in nitrogen and phosphorous than horse, not so rich in potash (provided in wheat straw), faster and hotter than horse, use dry pig and sheep - must be used before they become sticky - used partly dry

Other Nitrogen Sources:
Blood meal (dried blood), bone meal, urea, ammonium sulfate ((NH4)2SO4) Gypsum: calcium sulfate (CaSO4) - essential to mushroom compost preparation - prevents the compost from becoming too "greasy" - by forming an equilibrium matrix with the water, also helps the colloids to flocculate producing a compost with a more granular structure with increased water holding capacity: provides Ca++ ions; a mineral essential to mushroom growth: helps to prevent the loss of nitrogen (from the breakdown of proteins during the act of composting) by chelating the ammonia

Optional Mineral Sources:
Superphosphate; is said to promote vigorous mycelial growth, but an excess may make the beds too acid too soon which depreciate the crop. 14 lbs./ton of compost should be added at the last turn.

Sulfate of potash; used in synthetic composts.

Activators; compost "activators" can be obtained from nursery and garden stores and assures the presence of the organism essential to composting.

The following recipe creates about one half ton of compost.
Sample Compost Recipe:
5 bales wheat straw, half a pickup (half ton) horse manure, third of a pickup of horse manure, 30 lbs. gypsum, 2 lbs. activator, 70 lbs. chicken manure, 4 lbs. Blood meal and 30 lbs. gypsum.

The preparation of mushroom compost is usually done in two stages. The breakdown of raw ingredients begins in Phase I. Phase I is characterized by building the raw ingredients into long rectangular piles approximately 2 m high called "ricks" or "windrows". These stacks are then periodically turned, watered, and formed. This phase is essentially a microbiological process resulting in release of energy and heat.

To favor the development of relatively high temperatures, aerobic conditions are maintained by aerating the compost during repeated mixing or turning. Temperature fluctuations during this phase are paralleled by similar changes in the numbers of thermophilic (heat loving) bacteria. These organisms start to grow rapidly and release energy in the form of heat. Thermogenesis by microorganisms initiates the heating of Phase I and also produces heat in Phase II.

The internal temperature of a compost pile can reach up to 80oC. Traditional Phase I composting lasts from 7 to 14 days depending on the condition of the material at the start and its characteristics at each turn. It is considered complete when the raw ingredients have become pliable and are capable of holding water. The odor of ammonia should be sharp, and the color of the compost is dark-brown in color, indicating caramelization and browning reactions have occurred.

It is primarily the control of the environment that distinguishes Phase II from Phase I. Typically, compost is loaded into wooden trays, which are stacked, and then placed in specially designed rooms where the environmental conditions can be manipulated. Phase II is commonly referred to as peak-heating and may be initiated by steam. Pasteurization is accomplished early in the Phase II operation and is necessary to kill many insects, nematodes, and other pests or pathogens that may be present in the compost.

Pasteurization requires air and compost temperatures of 66oC for a minimum of 2 hours. Once pasteurization is accomplished, cool air is introduced into the Phase II room to assure adequate oxygen, and to help dissipate ammonia. An important function of Phase II microbes that survive the pasteurization process is the conversion of residual ammonia into protein. Because ammonia is lethal to the mushroom mycelium, it must be removed by the end of Phase II.

A stage is reached when the available food supplies for organisms inhabiting the compost become quite limiting, hence their activity decreases. The substrate is now set for spawning, and the substrate is said to be 'selective' for the growth of the mushroom. Once the odor of ammonia is no longer present, Phase II is over and the compost temperature can be dropped to 24oC for the addition of the grain spawn.

It is primarily the control of the environment that distinguishes Phase II from Phase I. Typically, compost is loaded into wooden trays, which are stacked, and then placed in specially designed rooms where the environmental conditions can be manipulated. Phase II is commonly referred to as peak-heating and may be initiated by steam. Pasteurization is accomplished early in the Phase II operation and is necessary to kill many insects, nematodes, and other pests or pathogens that may be present in the compost.

Pasteurization requires air and compost temperatures of 66oC for a minimum of 2 hours. Once pasteurization is accomplished, cool air is introduced into the Phase II room to assure adequate oxygen, and to help dissipate ammonia. An important function of Phase II microbes that survive the pasteurization process is the conversion of residual ammonia into protein. Because ammonia is lethal to the mushroom mycelium, it must be removed by the end of Phase II.

A stage is reached when the available food supplies for organisms inhabiting the compost become quite limiting, hence their activity decreases. The substrate is now set for spawning, and the substrate is said to be 'selective' for the growth of the mushroom. Once the odor of ammonia is no longer present, Phase II is over and the compost temperature can be dropped to 24oC for the addition of the grain spawn.

A good compost custom made for Cubes, will grown some whoppers.
 


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMicronMagick
old hand

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 1,026
Re: mushroom compost [Re: SixTango]
    #1232444 - 01/19/03 09:46 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledeanofmean
mycophagous

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 2,017
Loc: PNW
Re: mushroom compost [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1232451 - 01/19/03 09:54 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 9 days, 12 hours
Re: mushroom compost [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1232502 - 01/19/03 10:24 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I said anything you buy in a store labeled "mushroom compost" and it doesn?t explicitly say "designed for mushroom cultivation" is spent mushroom compost.

I?d expect a vendor to be smarter.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: mushroom compost [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1232518 - 01/19/03 10:36 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

First, because I am affiliated with MycotaPro compost & am not a paid sponsor - here - yet. It is against forum guidelines to discuss their product. Once, MycotaPro is a paid sponsor - here. I certainly will.

The issue was "peat" in a mushroom compost. That, I will comment on.

It would be counterproductive to add peat to a raw compost, intended for mushroom production. The reason being, peat is acidic & nonnutritive. If you added peat, you would have to adjust the pH of the windrows by adding calcium carbonate. Adding peat, makes no sense.

Initially raw compost will have an alkaline pH. When mature and ready for inoculation the pH should be between 7.0 and 8.0. As the mushroom and mycelium grows there will be a drop of pH from the excreted metabolites until the pH reaches 5.0-5.5 at which time mushroom production will generally cease.

Any product advertised as "mushroom compost" that contained "peat" would almost certainly be a "spent" substrate. The peat content would be from the "peat" based casing material used while in production.

When mushroom beds become exhausted, the spent substrate & casing material is removed together, all at once. That "spent" substrate, now including peat, because it is the primary constituent of the casing mix is then sold as "compost" intended for landscaping, flower beds or gardens. In those uses, as hummus -- the peat content would be beneficial. It would not be beneficial for mushroom production.

I agree ANNO.
6T


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

Edited by SixTango (01/19/03 11:06 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGthirteens
GovernmentalStrain 13
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 257
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: mushroom compost [Re: SixTango]
    #1232574 - 01/19/03 11:34 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the great read you guys! Anno... SixT... it seems you guys DO know your stuff! Especially SixT... Oh my gosh man, did you go to compost college;)

SixT, expect a PM from me if your reading this.

and...

Anno, nice pics of those Golden Teachers up on SporeWorks.. I just now saw them! I hope I can get some GT's like them!:)

Peace!
Gthirteens - "It's all I ever smoke"


--------------------
Nostalgiaholic -

Fresh Times Past Age Like Wine,
More and More Precious All the Time

We have found they can intoxicate,
Blurring the Reality of our State

As I pluck them off my Aged Mental Vine,
Fresh Times Past Taste Like Wine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: mushroom compost [Re: Gthirteens]
    #1232582 - 01/19/03 11:51 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

ANNO knows so much more than I, on this subject. I am only a grasshopper compared to him. 6T :tongue:


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMicronMagick
old hand

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 1,026
Re: mushroom compost [Re: SixTango]
    #1232632 - 01/20/03 12:44 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMicronMagick
old hand

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 1,026
Re: mushroom compost [Re: Anno]
    #1232642 - 01/20/03 12:55 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 9 days, 12 hours
Re: mushroom compost [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1232654 - 01/20/03 01:15 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I?m not going to argue with you, since this is obviously what you are after..
People who read this thread will build their own opinion on the whole issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: mushroom compost [Re: Anno]
    #1232705 - 01/20/03 02:22 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Peaple who read the label would KNOW, Scotts 3-in-1 does not contain "peat".

If anyone cares to read the EXACT label - CLICK HERE

The content differs from region to region. Moreover, after reading the label, it is obvious the ingediants are neither optimal, nor contain adiquate nitrogen to even be near optimal for P. Cube (or edible) mushroom cultivation.

6T


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMicronMagick
old hand

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 1,026
Re: mushroom compost [Re: SixTango]
    #1233230 - 01/20/03 06:29 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushMushi
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 480
Loc: Canada
Re: mushroom compost [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1233346 - 01/20/03 07:04 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with Anno and SixTango.
I have worked in a mushroom farm. The compost they are selling is "spent mushroom compost" and it contains peat moss.  :smirk:
Because I knew some people there, they finally accepted to sell me small quantities of ready-to-be-inoculated-compost. (They never sold it before)
:grin:
Edit: Spelling 

Edited by MushMushi (01/20/03 07:05 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: mushroom compost [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1234434 - 01/20/03 02:35 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

MM..............Obviously, Scott's 3N1 products are available to whomever can find it & might choose to purchase & use them -- for any purpose.

The label on it speaks for itself. It is a general application lawn & garden care compost, made from differing substances that vary from region to region.

Read it yourself.



Immediately apparent is that it is made from regionally variable combinations of compost, manure, forest products & topsoil. That combination of ingredients does not comprise anything near fresh optimal mushroom compost.

Moreover, It's total nutritive analysis is 0.05% total nitrogen phosphate & potash. Which is nowhere near the optimal nutritive analysis of a premium mushroom compost specifically designed, formulated & made for general cubensis cultivation.

Furthermore, Scott's is neither formulated, shredded, aerobically turned, monitored, tested, nor run through final phase 2 pasteurization as is optimal fresh premium mushroom compost. Consequently, on a regional basis it may harbor pathogens harmful to mycelium growth.

As the label states, the only area where it is made from manure alone, is Florida. Anyone anywhere -- can -- with variable degree's of difficulty -- find manure. However, the Scotts product in Florida has the same nutritive content as elsewhere (0.05% total nitrogen phosphate & potash).

Raw horse & cow manure has a nitrogen content generally ranging from 1.5 to 2.6%. Consequently, raw manure alone -- would be a far better choice than Scotts, as a mushroom substrate.

As far as composting to create a mushroom substrate goes, I have repeatedly posted voluminous material here in the hopes of teaching anyone interested how it is done & that they can do it themselves, if they desire. You certainly could attempt the process & attempt to vend the results, if you wish. Competition in the market place is healthy & beneficial to consumers. We all want better quality products, for less money that ordinary ones.

As for your allegations of any misrepresentation of the a picture on the 1st page of the MycotaPro website. 1st, the site is in the design stage, not yet complete, nor fully functional. That picture is only a temporary test picture, not meant for public viewing & will not exist there, when the site is complete.

Moreover, in the future when anyone views this thread, then refers to the website & finds MycotaPro copyrighted pictures there. I can only speculated they will assume you are making much ado about nothing.

As far as I know, the first mention of the MycotaPro website occurred in this thread at the Shroomery.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Vendor&Number=1218361&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Obviously, the well meaning soul who posted the http of the incomplete & unfinished website did so without fully understanding the website was -- is & remains "UNDER CONSTRUCTION" until such time as it is complete, fully functional & advertised in appropriate venues throughout the web.

Please understand, I am not trying to bust anyone's chops products, or misrepresent facts. IMHO, it is apparent to anyone viewing this thread, exactly who is attempting to do that.

Moreover, I am at a gross disadvantage here. As you are posting allegations of misrepresentation on the MycotaPro website, as if this were some Roman public debacle & vendetta style "vendor" war. Which is "prohibited" under the general & specific guidelines of this forum?

Insofar as MycotaPro is not yet a qualified "vendor" here, you know I am prohibited from posting in defense of MycotaPro products (as that could be construed as unpaid prohibited advertising). While you, as a vendor here, on are free to maliciously attempt to discredit & flame the reputation & products of a new innovative company that will sooner than later be a paid advertiser here.

That, (IMHO) is akin to unethically beating a person, when their hands are tied behind their back.

On the supposed professional level of a vendor here, your long standing publicly displayed actions speak volumes about both your credibility, prudence, style & ethics.

As a forum member here, I am free to defend my personal reputation. It speaks well for itself & needs no defense.

I'm going to have to cut this short, as all the publicity you have created here, intentionally meaning to flame & slander both myself & MycotaPro products has caused a flood of inquiries about MycotaPro products that, I require answers.

6T (aka Mycota) -- thinking to himself, a Forrest Gump quote comes to mind here.


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~

Edited by SixTango (01/20/03 03:02 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehydrogen
bomb
Registered: 07/22/02
Posts: 27
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
Re: mushroom compost [Re: SixTango]
    #1234483 - 01/20/03 02:51 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

On the supposed professional level of a vendor here, your long standing publicly displayed actions speak volumes about both your credibility, prudence, style & ethics.

As a forum member here, I am free to defend my personal reputation. It speaks well for itself & needs no defense.



Don't worry 6T, everyone knows Micron Moron is a flippin idiot.

You should have said, "Be sure and make your own filter discs people!".


--------------------
- hydrogen


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRoadkillM
Retired Shroomery Mod
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
Trusted Cultivator
Re: mushroom compost [Re: killswitch]
    #1234510 - 01/20/03 02:59 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Well it's turning ugly in here now.

I'm closing the thread.

You should read the bag of mushroom compost and also ask if this is spent mushroom compost or not.



--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Pennsylvania mushroom compost greenplato 4,397 3 11/14/01 08:50 PM
by greenplato
* Commercial Mushroom Compost Ainasko 5,948 10 06/06/03 08:14 PM
by spiritshaper
* Mushroom compost at Lowes augiemolly 2,785 6 05/09/03 03:21 PM
by calicyco
* mushroom compost has been discussed and discarded mntlfngrs 1,979 8 09/12/02 12:51 PM
by mntlfngrs
* Mushroom Compost SlamDog_C 1,952 8 03/02/02 02:04 AM
by World Spirit
* mushrooms compost indkebr 1,133 4 08/03/02 12:27 PM
by indkebr
* Casing Question regarding product called "Mushroom Compost" lemink 1,119 4 04/27/03 01:09 AM
by Vertigo
* Mushroom,COMpost sir_shroom_alot 1,017 3 07/15/01 06:50 PM
by jonnyshaggs420

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
13,603 topic views. 15 members, 88 guests and 43 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.013 seconds on 14 queries.