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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Recommend some books [Re: Phluck]
    #4964958 -

Phluck said:
Ok... but that's not going to make it mean anything unless you blindly accept the idea that your resulting emotions, and not what's being said, are the message. What does "Letting message sink in" mean? Does it mean thinking about what's actually being said, or abandoning thought, and letting your feelings take over?


It means thinking about it in a non-rationalistic way. To meditate on it. I don't know how better to describe it. Just don't get too hung up on the words themselves, but rather, try to understand the meaning behind the words.

Quote:
You're still assuming that you're absolutely right, and anyone who actually gets this stuff will think it's wonderful and important. I don't think it's difficult to appreciate this stuff on a spiritual level. Like I said, I ate this shit up when I was first getting into psychedelics. I thought Leary and McKenna were neat guys who were really onto something.

I'm saying that after reflection, after thinking about what these things really say, they don't have much meaning or depth. They definitely create emotions of meaning and depth, but that's not the same thing at all, and like I said, when you're experiencing these emotions, there is absolutely no way to distinguish between the two.


Then maybe you really have had some experience with the approach I'm describing, and have decided to reject it. If that's the case, then I apologize for being so presumptuous. To me, it just seems like a difference in the ability to conceptualize. I don't really have any problem conceptualizing non-duality, but you seem to think the idea is stupid precisely because it doesn't fit into this rationalistic worldview which is inherently dualistic.

Quote:
If I wanted to read something just for the experience of reading something that gave me interesting images and ideas, I'd read fiction, which generally does a much better job, and doesn't come at you with the self-aggrandizing assumption that it contains the answers to the mysteries of the universe.


You seem to carry the self-aggrandizing assumption that logic is always the superior means to finding answers. And it's just that -- an assumption. You're being no less arrogant than these authors you're condemning. They're offering just what you're offering -- a point of view. Take it or leave it, but don't call them arrogant for disagreeing.

Quote:
Exactly, forget any kind of validation, hell, who cares what the guy is actually even trying to say. What does it feel like he's saying? Do you like it? You should, you invented it yourself, loosely based off of something else you read. If like it, then it's true!


Look, these books are simply meant to help you. If it helps you conceptualize things better, then it's a helpful book. What you're doing is trying to apply literal standards to things which aren't meant to be taken literally. It's not meant to tell you the truth. It's meant to help you find the truth for yourself.


--------------------

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Re: Recommend some books [Re: Silversoul]
    #4965039 -

No Death No Fear
Author: Thich Nhat Hanh

I would HIGHLY recommend this book or any others written by this man. Very uplifting and insightful, anyone else read books from him?

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Re: Recommend some books [Re: Silversoul]
    #4965105 -

By and large Paradigm, I agree with what you're saying.

However, I think that both Western thought (I characterise it as being materialistic rationalism) and Eastern thought (I characterise it as being directed towards selflessness and downplaying the ego) are both dogmas. They're two completely different ways of looking at the same thing. Once you try to describe that "thing" though, you get caught up in these games of language and duality (yes, I think there is a nondualistic reality, and yes, I think that paradoxically we are living in it right now, but are in an illusory realm).

Phluck said:
I'm saying that after reflection, after thinking about what these things really say, they don't have much meaning or depth.

In your opinion then, what would have meaning or depth?

They definitely create emotions of meaning and depth, but that's not the same thing at all, and like I said, when you're experiencing these emotions, there is absolutely no way to distinguish between the two.

Then how are you able to distinguish that you aren't caught in an emotion trap of meaning and depth for whatever you said to my above question?


The way I see it is any attempt to conceptualize the "mind" the "Tao" or whatever name you choose to apply to it, is correct. Wherever you are, whatever you believe, there you are, and you are right. IMO, there is no right or wrong way to describe reality since all descriptions are doomed to failure (IMO).


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Recommend some books [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
    #4965113 -

HELLA_TIGHT said:
dblaney said:
HELLA_TIGHT said:
HELLA_TIGHT said:
The Book - Alan Watts


Have none of you hippies read this?


I ended up buying that book because of your recommendation in this thread.


Did you like it?


Haven't read it yet. To be honest, it's sitting somewhere near the middle of a pile of ten or so books I want to read. I'm reading them pretty quickly though. (Piracetam is cool :grin: ). I've read a few of his other books though, are they at all similar, or did he go off in a different direction this time?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Recommend some books [Re: dblaney]
    #4965201 -

It's all on one subject, not like This is it.


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Re: Recommend some books [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
    #4965230 -

That's cool. I'm looking forward to reading it then.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Recommend some books [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
    #4965247 -

Read some Hermann Hesse:


Steppenwolf
Demian
Siddhartha
Beneath the Wheel
Journey to the East

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Re: Recommend some books [Re: Gr8fulJ420]
    #4965264 -

Tom Clancy Net Force
" Point of impact "
- damn good reading..
Bhagavad Gita ( as it is )
- enlighten yourself.


--------------------
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one

Diploid said:
What's with proclaiming freedom by abridging freedom? That makes no sense.

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Re: Recommend some books [Re: Gr8fulJ420]
    #4965272 -

Gr8fulJ420 said:
Read some Hermann Hesse:


Siddhartha



Only book of his I've read, and it was damn good.  :thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Recommend some books [Re: elaspeinreason]
    #4965274 -

elaspeinreason said:
Bhagavad Gita ( as it is )
- enlighten yourself.


:thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Community > The Pub
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