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anti-semitism/destruction of isreal
    #4926501 -

why the hate?

i don't know much about it all. why do the jews want their state and why do others hate them?

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: TameMe]
    #4926578 -

conflicting religious beliefs + greed and ignorance


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: TameMe]
    #4926589 -

Geopolitics I am guessing


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.

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Re: the muslims are also of shem [Re: TameMe]
    #4926599 -

Blues For Allah

Arabian wind, The needle's eye is thin, The ships of state sail on mirage,
And drown in sand, Out in no-man's land where Allah does command.

What good is spilling blood? It will not grow a thing;
Taste eternity the swords sing: Blues of Allah In 'sh'Allah.

They lie where they fall, There's nothing more to say,
The desert stars are bright tonight lets meet as friends,
The Flower of Islam, The Fruit of Abraham.

The thousand stories have come round to one again,
Arabian night, Our Gods pursue their fight,
What fatal flowers of darkness bloom from seeds of light.

Bird of paradise fly in white sky, Blues for Allah In 'sh'Allah,
Let's see with our heart, These things our eyes have seen,
And know the truth must still lie somewhere in between.

Under eternity, under eternity, under eternity blue,
Bird of paradise fly in white sky, Blues for Allah In 'sh'Allah.


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: the muslims are also of shem [Re: gnrm23]
    #4926602 -

Ana'l Haqq!!!

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: barfightlard]
    #4926668 -

bellylard said:
conflicting religious beliefs + greed and ignorance


and what are the confliciting beliefs?

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: Unagipie]
    #4926671 -

Unagipie said:
Geopolitics I am guessing


sounds complicated.

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: TameMe]
    #4926749 -

"My god is the only god, no my god is the only god" "This is our holy land, no it's ours"

bs upon bs, ect


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: barfightlard]
    #4926751 -

bellylard said:
"My god is the only god, no my god is the only god" "This is our holy land, no it's ours"

bs upon bs, ect



--------------------

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: Silversoul]
    #4928003 -

sounds like both sides should be eradicated then...if that what the big fight is over...i have a feeling it goes further and depper than that though.

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: TameMe]
    #4928092 -

It goes deeper, as Israel was 'invented' as a state after ww2 by the brittains, I think, with the americans.
Before, the whole region was arabic and jews or christs as buddhists or hindus were highly tolerated within this culture and they managed to live together in peace.
Now, an invented country claims more exclusive land-rights, due to their 'seddlemet'-politics and supportmenet with heavy arms.
It is also a fight for water (see 'Golan')...
I think, Isrealis don't handle their gift in a respectful way, so perhaps it is time to reconsider...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4928111 -

The easy habit of Jew hating has been a favourite thing for ignorant people for a long long time, from casual remarks to planned assaults.

My ancestors were chased from their homes many times, often raped and killed, their possessions distributed by the vile attackers. Then they would be permitted to begin again somewhere else. Encouraged to thrive, then blamed for other vagaries of nature like witches and oppressed again, enslaved, murdered, raped, robbed, and expelled for being different.

Setting up the state of Israel as a matter of history involved a British endorsement of a large organized land purchase from Turkey.

Some of the terms of the large scale real estate deal were awkward with respect to the rights of indigenous people and the matter of the Palestinians has not been handled well, the decendents of these people have many unresolved claims.

By the time the land acquisition became a full fledged self governed country, internal incidents of mishandling Palestinians were already hard to reconcile, and even harder to differntiate with self defence issues wrt Syria (a Nazi run society still very anti Jewish) in the north and attacks originating from Jordan an Egypt. Terrorism and dealing with terrorism replaced the long history of running from bullies, like the Nazis, the Pogroms, the inquisitions, and the sublter lingering racism in all parts of the world.

While many mistakes have been made, no sooner was the Jewish state set up as a refuge for Jews than it became under attack by those who would prefer to see us running again.

An on going peace making process is required, there are no final solutions, neither in the mideast or elsewhere. People have to be encouraged to learn all they can about life and eachother and they have to try to get along.

This is the lesson about human dignity, it is basic to peace, it is difficult to manage, yet it has to be done.

Many of the solutions I have heard about the mideast relate to people not wanting to hear any more about the actual details, or are about having more rights to OIL. A terrible amount of spin is put out to reverse the underdog and bully history. At this time Israel is the establisment in its own region, and it has to do what it has to do to improve the lot of the people there both arab and jews and any others who need the umbrella of protection from random acts of violence.

As the world shifts out of an oil based economy, some of the erroneously aligned tensions about Israel may dissappear. Education of people (especially non-religious education) is badly needed to help the poverty of the region, as well as food aid, medical aid, and connection with what is happenning in the rest of the world.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4928145 -

It is also tradition for jews to always see them as victims.
If they can't habitate with their surrounding world, as they always try to isolate themselves instead of integrating, they should be happy with the land they have now and be calm or just transmit their 'ideals' in a peacefull manner with some right to protect themselves, of course.
People will come to them, if they think they have to learn something from them.
This is not my opinion only for jews, but for all kind of moving 'cultures' who want a rest somewhere. The ghettos are not only forced by the outside, they also were due to their own wish for isolation and that will do harm in a society.

We should try to see a 'middle-way' here and this is called integration. what does not mean vanishing of specific values, but enriching each others values...

(I try to put those values on every human, as said, so please forgive me, if I sometimes think with the eye of an outsider, with a peer to the inside, the Jews are the most intollerant and elitist, absolutistic system I ever have seen...and that is the cause to that historic 'hating'. Please give/bring more transcendence ! I finally, for example, want a real exact uncorrected translation of the Talmud, which was not allowed to be translated for a long time. You know why.)


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Edited by BlueCoyote (11/13/05 06:55 AM)

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: TameMe]
    #4928317 -

Organized religion breeds hate. Murder in the name of religion is the one of the worst of crimes, due to it's dishonest nature. When men fight about God, they really fight about money, but lie. Every war ever fought was for economics. "God" just gives them an excuse. I will never worship the "God" that condones this action.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4928334 -

Quote:
Every war ever fought was for economics. "God" just gives them an excuse


WORD!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: TameMe]
    #4928340 -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism


--------------------
Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: Icelander]
    #4928366 -

Until this war in Iraq I was a republican...This war is a fine example of a war that has religious overtones being about money. I don't know what my political affiliation is now. Is there a "pissed off" party?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4928389 -

Isn't every war about money or power?
Why do people start wars by invading territory that isn't theirs? Because they want that which they don't currently have control over.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4928422 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Until this war in Iraq I was a republican...This war is a fine example of a war that has religious overtones being about money. I don't know what my political affiliation is now. Is there a "pissed off" party?


There should be.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: anti-semitism/destruction of isreal [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4928463 -

BlueCoyote said:
It is also tradition for jews to always see them as victims.
If they can't habitate with their surrounding world, as they always try to isolate themselves instead of integrating, they should be happy with the land they have now and be calm or just transmit their 'ideals' in a peacefull manner with some right to protect themselves, of course.
People will come to them, if they think they have to learn something from them.
This is not my opinion only for jews, but for all kind of moving 'cultures' who want a rest somewhere. The ghettos are not only forced by the outside, they also were due to their own wish for isolation and that will do harm in a society.

We should try to see a 'middle-way' here and this is called integration. what does not mean vanishing of specific values, but enriching each others values...

(I try to put those values on every human, as said, so please forgive me, if I sometimes think with the eye of an outsider, with a peer to the inside, the Jews are the most intollerant and elitist, absolutistic system I ever have seen...and that is the cause to that historic 'hating'. Please give/bring more transcendence ! I finally, for example, want a real exact uncorrected translation of the Talmud, which was not allowed to be translated for a long time. You know why.)


maybe you are unfamiliar with me here at the shroomery, I am a jew, and I am integrated, so your comments quickly drift into error when applied to me as a person. this is the essence of racial discrimination.

I know that you are a clear thinking person, but what is thought but repitition or re-association: so, erroneously you unleash thoughts about me, and the people I grew up with, because of associations formed at an eariler time, or things you have read and heard, simply because I am a jew.

As for minor errors, specifically the talmud has been translated many times. recently however a hubub has emerged about the "zohar" or secret book of kabbala coming out. which is mere commercialization. the truth about that secrecy was that no people jews or other people (many monks and scholars were introduced to it in the middle ages or the TAROT would not exist) were encouraged to study zohar until after they were 40 years old.

The clear reason for delaying "mysticism" in any population is that it can easily lead to madness, and many who do face god go mad, as many a shroomerite can attest.

so, a couple of errors of prejudice can easily be countered with truer historical detail, while claims of elitism or of an undeserved "persecution complex" (give me a break! most of my parents relatives were exterminated) and other rumours may be much more persistent.

In any case, I am a jew and I am none of what you accuse me of, and I do not blame you for your point of view, or the errors, it is endemic in culture.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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