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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: Asante]
    #4696748 -

8:30pm according to time


I'm going to cause something


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Re: Free will poll. [Re: Shroomism]
    #4696765 -

Let me guess.. you're whipping out your bong  :bongload:

Somehow here on the shroomery most plans revolve around kind bud :wink:


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: MJF]
    #4696891 -

So, for the first question... Everyone who answered "yes" chose to answer yes, and everyone who chose "no" was forced to pick "no."

The true test of free will would be to lie and pick the opposite of what you believe... eh? :wink:

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: moog]
    #4696942 -

Not really.

No matter what actions you take, there is no free will to my knowledge, because on the macroscopic scale of the universe at which our neurons and physical body operate, everything follows causality. There is no "free will" because that would have to let you defy causality; every effect has a cause, and our actions are simply the effects of a long line of previous causes and effects. There is nothing forced or free; the distinction is moot, simple concepts created by humans with no bearing on reality.

Free will is also completely untestable, since we will only be able to follow one path of effects without ever knowing if the other paths were even a possibility in this universe. Not that untestability itself would dispose of the argument of free will, but currently free will requires some random X variables that don't fit in with the rest of the universe, and it makes the universe much more needlessly complex when we don't even need free will to explain actions. Logically following this thought pattern, I'd say that free will is just a subjective perceptual bias created by humans and not an actual truth.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: moog]
    #4698972 -

like ravus said...

why would you think that lying is proof of free will. lying and telling the truth is really no differnt.....when it comes down to it all. we just speack because we are compelled to speak by some unknown forces (causes) that we will never overcome...not that this is a bad thing...just being aware of our life is good enough for me....i don't need to be free...and i'm actually kinda scared of what i would be like if i were free.

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: MJF]
    #4702023 -

free will = choice

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: moog]
    #4702339 -

And how would you go about verifying or testing this choice? Time moves in a linear fashion, so there's no way to tell whether there's anything outside the linear determinism we follow.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: moog]
    #4705540 -

do we make a choice or do we think we make a choice.

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: MJF]
    #4705561 -

Does the universe make a choice? If we are molecules in the universe, than a choice is simply the deterministic path which the molecules follow. There is nothing external to make it otherwise, so as a unified part of the universe, our choices are real. The debatable part of this is whether we could have chosen otherwise, which I doubt since the universe cannot seem to choose otherwise.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: Ravus]
    #4705604 -

Yeah...in order for us to have free will then all(or at least more than one) possible outcomes should be equally probable....which....it kind of seems thing just operate like a machine.

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Re: Free will poll. *DELETED* [Re: MJF]
    #4705638 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: Reason?

Edited by Lakefingers (09/24/05 05:02 PM)

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #4705704 -


For the most part they're "free will" is an empty concept. Like "soul", "cool", Che Guevarra t-shirts, etc.

Actually, cool can be observed. There are trends and common opinions on coolness. Free will is nothing.

Even the people who believe in free will can't explain what it is. Some people claim it's like god because you just have to have faith in it...

Only god at least fits into some kind of description. Free will doesn't have any kind of explanation.

We choose? Like our brain is a machine that figures out choices? No? So it's random? No? What then? Our soul chooses? Does it use a system to choose? Is it random? WHAT?!


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: MJF]
    #4706291 -

For me, free will, for a large part comes from the uncertanity of unknown things to our mind. That makes a nescessarity for choice, of propability-selecting. For example, to take a higher risk if profits are greater.
For me, this free will, somehow fills the gaps between rational experienceable logic, which feeds the ego. Free will is feeded by the spirit.
Perhaps, if we don't have the possibility to choose, our free will will cease to exist.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: Phluck]
    #4706303 -

To prove free will, we'd have to prove that things could have been otherwise. But we only experience one reality, so we can only know that things happened as they happened, and not how they could have happened.


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Re: Free will poll. [Re: Silversoul]
    #4710208 -

wow.....a tie. interesting. as of this post there are 20 votes for each option.

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: MJF]
    #4711266 -

If you knew for a fact that free will was bullshit then I don't care what you say, living knowing that would suck.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Free will poll. [Re: MJF]
    #4711297 -

who is Will Poll and what's he in jail for?


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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: looner2]
    #4711333 -

Quote:
If you knew for a fact that free will was bullshit then I don't care what you say, living knowing that would suck.



If there was no free will it was not up to you to decide life sucked :grin:
Thats the beauty of it!


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: Free will poll. [Re: Asante]
    #4711370 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
If you knew for a fact that free will was bullshit then I don't care what you say, living knowing that would suck.



If there was no free will it was not up to you to decide life sucked :grin:
Thats the beauty of it!


No, thats not the beauty of it. If there was no free will than my magnificence would have no bearing in comparison to lower human beings. My power would be compromised as it didn't come from my own strength, will, and heart. I would be among the pathetic, cowardly, and weak in the fact that I possessed nothing greater than a better hand at the draw. I would have had no choice in my achievements as a mechanistic autobot of determinism. This would sadden my entire being.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Free will poll. [Re: looner2]
    #4711406 -

Quote:
This would sadden my entire being.


Thats probably why you don't believe in it :wink:

Quote:
I would be among the pathetic, cowardly, and weak



Impossible. If there is no free will there is no possibilty to have any acxtions that make one pathetic and cowardly and the weakness is your fate, not your doing.

Quote:
If there was no free will than my magnificence would have no bearing in comparison to lower human beings.


Perhaps magnificence and lower humans are figments of the imagination and everyone is equal to the universe.

Quote:
I would have had no choice in my achievements


They wouldn't even be YOUR achievements, but the universe would flow through your hands and you'd be an observer only.
Nobody also cannot fuck up stuff so thats a plus.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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