Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Another take on boosting plant alkaloid levels,under the light of current phytohormone discussions.
    #4198829 -

An everlasting quest for many people is to increase alkaloidal production in many ethnobotanical plants they own.The common method used is stress :water deprivation,light deprivation,sometimes damaging the plant or even increase of NaCl in the soil.

All these methods are know to work more or less.Its time though that we see what intracellular proccesses stress activates.At the light of the current influx of plant hormones i tried to see if plant stress has any effect on phytohormones withing the plant.Indeed it has and as i found out many plants under stress secrete cytokinins ,like the ones contained in in coconut milk or like the ones Una used to stimulate auxiliarry budding on cacti (6BAP, 6 Benzylaminopurin). I found two very interesting papers that anyone with interest in plant alkaloids and phytohormones should read.They are (if im not wrong) focused on indole alkaloids:

http://etd02.lnx390.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-0407102-133614/unrestricted/02GeneralIntroduction.pdf

http://www.univ-tours.fr/ed/edsst/comm2004/lemenager.pdf

Research papers on effect of plant hormones and cytokinins in plants that contained controlled alcaloids were not found online ,i think because of the nature of this subject.

So ,what does those papers say in brief? Simply ,auxins (like IAA ,indoloacetic acid) proved not to be helping alkaloid production in plant material mainly leaves.Cytokinins on the other hand [BAP , or the coconut milk one lets call it zeatin because it has a huge name : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...;dopt=Abstract] showed a marked increase in alkaloid production ,i think 9fold.As the papers say if we try to inhibit the auxin (or use strains not responsive to auxins) and increase cytokinins we have a trade off between growth and alkaloid production.In laymans terms we have a small plant packed with alkaloids. Please read the papers for yourself,i might have missed something.

So how does that come handy? How do we inhibit auxin production and increase cytokinins? An idea follows :Cut of the apical bud (part where growth occurs from at the top) so auxin production drops ,and supplement (via foliar spray?) cytokinins ,coconut milk for example, at a concentration of 15% as some other papers i gave in another post suggest.Lateral bud development may be observed as well ,like when you prune a plant's top more lateral branches grow.

So what about the trade off? Noone wants a plant with stunted growth and more biomass means more cells to produce alkaloids. So the solution to this would be to leave the plant to reach a big biomass ,a very good height and girth for example and then apply the abot technique weeks before partial harvesting.

From what i gather this could work for plants containing indole alkaloids ,since cytokinin in the absence of auxin showed a marked increase in the Tryptophan decarboxylase which is the enzyme that turns tryptophan to tryptamine (interesting eh?). Could the same mechanism of enzyme boosting throug cytokinin apply to other carries of phenethylamine? I dont know but it would be propable that other sets of enzymes are boosted ,through altered DNA transcription. One could try that on a cactus cutting that has already chopped of for experimenting.Remove the apical part and subject it to coconut milk treatmeants ,wait a month and see if any changes occur.

On a sidenote,speaking of phenethylamines here is a very preety overview of the biosynthetic pathways of alkaloids derived from tyrosine and L-DOPA : http://www.hort.purdue.edu/rhodcv/hort640c/polyam/po00009.htm


--------------------
Entheomation's SEED Ethical Vendor Project.Please support it if you value your plants!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Another take on boosting plant alkaloid levels,under the light of current phytohormone discussio [Re: Psiloman]
    #4199321 -

That's very interesting, Psiloman. If BAP increaces production of alkaloids it might make certain plants more potent. I don't think cutting the tops off is going to do anything about inhibiting auxin production and I'm not sure that's a good thing to do anyway. As you pointed out, a stunted plant is not desireable. Cutting the growing tips just causes the lower tips to grow. Does this work on all sorts of alkaloids? I guess no one knows or if they know they aren't saying. Salvinorin is not an alkaloid but maybe BAP would boost production in some way. It might boost production of a precursor molecule perhaps. I imagine the pot farmers would be interested in this. Might poppies become more potent? Did you learn any details about when and how they applied these hormones?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Another take on boosting plant alkaloid levels,under the light of current phytohormone discussio [Re: Stonehenge]
    #4199391 -

"I don't think cutting the tops off is going to do anything about inhibiting auxin production "

Experiments have shown that if one cuts of the apical bud (top part) BUT applies on the wound a lanolin paste containing an auxin ,apical dominance is preserved as if the apical bud was left intact! I think that its the apical bud that produces the auxins in the plant,well at least most of them that cutting it off would mean no/very little auxin.

"As you pointed out, a stunted plant is not desireable."

Yup,hence the tradeoff! This should only done to a plant that its owners considers it to be "very big"...Of course,one shouldnt try it in his precious one-of-a-kind plant ,but in a clone of it :laugh: Wink-Wink!

"Does this work on all sorts of alkaloids? I guess no one knows or if they know they aren't saying. Salvinorin is not an alkaloid but maybe BAP would boost production in some way. It might boost production of a precursor molecule perhaps. "

I think it could boost many alkaloids and many copounds, even salvinorin A which is a terpene.Think of it like that : It generally boosts what the plant is doing by boosting DNA transcription,RNA translation ,protein (and hence enzyme) creation etc etc. Its a way to urge the plant cell to go faster. Poppies contain alkaloids so it could work,dont know for sure though...That means extensive Googling.

I think the passages i gave have some protocols althought they might be only in tissue culture...You can search the web for foliar application of plant hormones  or look at the other post about maxicrop i gave (although maxicrop contains auxins) ,which if i remember correctly i quote some foliar application of hormones given at a study..

EDIT: Im saving you some time net scourging...Have a look here

I just found this article http://rbt.ots.ac.cr/revistas/44-3y451/kadiri.htm


--------------------
Entheomation's SEED Ethical Vendor Project.Please support it if you value your plants!

Edited by Psiloman (05/20/05 12:16 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Another take on boosting plant alkaloid levels,under the light of current phytohormone discussio [Re: Psiloman]
    #4519138 -

A very very very good and all inclusive webpage on phytohormones (plant growth regulators) can be found here :

http://www.planthormones.info/

It begs for bookmarking :laugh:


--------------------
Entheomation's SEED Ethical Vendor Project.Please support it if you value your plants!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Another take on boosting plant alkaloid levels,under the light of current phytohormone discussio [Re: Psiloman]
    #4521331 -

Strangely, there's no mention of triacontanol.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Another take on boosting plant alkaloid levels,under the light of current phytohormone discussio [Re: stvip]
    #4521528 -

Triacontanol? I surely have to Google that...

Any quickies on it?


--------------------
Entheomation's SEED Ethical Vendor Project.Please support it if you value your plants!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Another take on boosting plant alkaloid levels,under the light of current phytohormone discussio [Re: Psiloman]
    #4530750 -

Hmmmi found some info on that compound,but it does not say if it is an auxin or a cytokinin.

On one hand they say it promotes growth (quite generally) as if they are speaking for an auxin,on the other hand htey mention specifically that it increases photosynthesis rate something cytokinins do....

Any light on this matter?


--------------------
Entheomation's SEED Ethical Vendor Project.Please support it if you value your plants!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Another take on boosting plant alkaloid levels,under the light of current phytohormone discussio [Re: Psiloman]
    #4530809 -

I'm far from an expert on these matters - I only research botany as it relates to gardening or to my interest in psychoactive plants, but I do think the sharp distinction between the roles of auxins, cytokinins and other plant hormones might be wrong. I've seen different sources ascribe different properties to these compounds, and their effects are modulated by each other, as well as other factors. Generally, I believe cytokinins do promote general growth (they stimulate cell division), especially if an auxin is also present.
Anyhow, I mention triacontanol because I have chanced upon a few references explicitly concerning its effects on alkaloid levels of various plants.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Papaver Somniferum in the garden
( 1 2 all )		 zaros 4,243 33 03/02/18 12:27 PM
by zaros
* why do plants and stuff have drugs in them?
( 1 2 all )		 teen 3,667 30 03/17/04 04:25 AM
by Aneglakya
* alkaloids and clorophyl - their relationship felixhigh 1,447 10 11/28/03 05:26 PM
by Hermes_br
* How does this pot plant look?
( 1 2 all )		 falseaddiction 5,792 28 01/22/04 07:29 PM
by geokills
* Wow! Anyone hear of/using maxicrop? UPDATE:Phytohormones at the store near you and your urine!!!!
( 1 2 all )		 Psiloman 5,812 20 07/14/05 01:31 PM
by Psiloman
* Zone 5 Dmt source plant? LOBO 6,678 10 03/07/02 11:46 AM
by rommstein2001
* The Simple Plant Isoquinolines EvilGir 3,303 6 06/10/08 11:49 PM
by Zinglons Acolyte
* DMT Plant Sources EvilGir 5,143 7 03/22/02 12:21 PM
by felixhigh

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: karode13, Mostly_Harmless, A.k.a
3,334 topic views. 0 members, 358 guests and 15 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.