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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Top 10 greatest philosophers
    #4450804 - 07/25/05 04:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

according to the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/greatest_philosopher_vote_result.shtml
Quote:

1. Marx
2. Hume
3. Wittgenstein
4. Nietzsche
5. Plato
6. Kant
7. Aquinas
8. Socrates
9. Aristotle
10. Popper



Marx as numero uno? Interesting.


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Offlinealsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...

Registered: 02/17/05
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: spud]
    #4451231 - 07/25/05 05:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i take it that was based on a public vote or something? i'm surprised hegel isn't in that list.

my top 10, in historical order:

socrates
plato
aristotle
descartes
spinoza
kant
william of occam
hume
comte
godel

not necessarily the most influential, but the ones i have found most interesting and mind-opening.

aquinas was a fucking retard, in my opinion.


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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: spud]
    #4451241 - 07/25/05 05:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Personally I think that list is rubbish. Most of the conclusions those philosophers came to have been brought up even here on a drug board philosophy forum, by people who have never even read their works. How many common men throughout the world are great thinkers without the recognition of these guys, who come up with the same ideas on their own? I'm betting hundreds of thousands, at least. These philosophers' ideas were incredibly simplistic and primitive in my opinion due to humanity's limited view of reality at the time in which they lived, especially with regard to scientific discoveries. Hell, our world view is still limited. But at the time in which they lived their ideas were considered so incredible and great.

Take for instance this quote from David Hume:
"Beauty in things exists in the mind which contemplates them."

LOL! This sounds like something that's posted here every other day by Gomp or Fireworksgod or whoever. It's an incredibly simple conclusion which many shroomerites have come to even on their own, without ever reading Hume. This tells me that philosophy seems to be advancing as our species gains more knowledge of reality through science. There also may be an effect whereby these ideas have already spread through the collective consciousness so that they now seem very simple and common. So to me today, my reaction to Hume's quote would be, "well duh." But two or three hundred years ago I might have thought, "wow that's incredible," because of the general mental state of humanity at the time.

So, while these guys may have been influential in years past, their ideas, while still substantial, are much less amazing in their insight. This is why I steer clear of the classical philosophy. Those ideas are rooted in times of old when humanity's knowledge of its reality was much less than it is today. And so I find myself and many others grokking these philosophers' ideas without any trouble and often coming to the same conclusions on our own.


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Offlinealsey
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: moog]
    #4451260 - 07/25/05 05:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

hume brought up the whole problem of causality though, very important IMO.


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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: alsey]
    #4451773 - 07/25/05 07:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah but WHY is humanity's general philosophical knowledge greater now than it was in the past?

That, is why these people have made great contributions :smile:

(not saying identical conclusions can't be reached separately, but advances by popular philosophers become common knowledge naturally, and always look less significant in hindsight :cool:)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: spud]
    #4451863 - 07/25/05 07:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Is this in terms of the influence these philosophers had? If so, I don't understand why Locke and Heidegger aren't on there. And what of Eastern philosophers like Lao-Tzu or Confucius?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: Silversoul]
    #4451872 - 07/25/05 07:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Lao Tzu, if he existed and was truly only one person, was the best of the bunch.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: Silversoul]
    #4451877 - 07/25/05 07:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

What about Epictetus? Jack Handey? Pogo?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: Veritas]
    #4451953 - 07/25/05 07:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:

And why isn't Gomp on the list?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: Swami]
    #4452509 - 07/25/05 10:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

if gomp is truly one person,
the same surely applies


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: alsey]
    #4453486 - 07/26/05 02:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

these lists are arbitrary

deleuze
spinoza
nietzsche
wittgenstein

best i've read some of


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Edited by crunchytoast (07/26/05 03:47 AM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: moog]
    #4454458 - 07/26/05 08:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)


Take for instance this quote from David Hume:
"Beauty in things exists in the mind which contemplates them."

LOL! This sounds like something that's posted here every other day by Gomp or Fireworksgod or whoever.


Yeah, but some things that seem deceptively simple, are in fact relatively new ideas that only seem so simple because we've spent generations being influenced by them.

It may seem odd, but the idea that things like beauty are subjective, and not divinely granted to things by god is fairly new.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: spud]
    #4454461 - 07/26/05 08:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Terrence McKenna.

Just kidding.  :smirk:


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinealsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...

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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4454995 - 07/26/05 12:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
spinoza




yay! i was beginning to think i was the only person who liked him.


--------------------
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: Phluck]
    #4455019 - 07/26/05 12:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It may seem odd, but the idea that things like beauty are subjective, and not divinely granted to things by god is fairly new.
Humans (often) invent words and terms to seperate from g*d instead of describing his 'beauty'.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: Phluck]
    #4455232 - 07/26/05 01:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
Terrence McKenna.

Just kidding.  :smirk:




Don't forget Robert Anton Wilson followed by David Ickes!


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OfflineWorldbridger
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Registered: 05/15/04
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: spud]
    #4455256 - 07/26/05 01:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I like to brag about this whenever I get a chance so, I actually took a course taught by RAW himself, what a terrific educational oppurtunity it turned out to be!  :grin:


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OfflineWorldbridger
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: spud]
    #4455323 - 07/26/05 01:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Surprised to see Nietzsche on a BBC list.


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: Worldbridger]
    #4457065 - 07/26/05 09:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

My votes:

Buddha
Lao-Tzu
Kant
Wittgenstien
Godel
Plato
Nietzsche
Pythagoras
Sartre
David Chalmers

Intentional Glaring omissions:

Aristotle (he was wrong about so much and didn't know when to say "I don't know/not enough evidence to decide.")
The political philosophers (Locke, Hobbes, etc)
Contenental philosophers (hegel and other producers of crap psuedophilosophy)


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: Top 10 greatest philosophers [Re: alsey]
    #4458445 - 07/27/05 03:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i know exactly how you feel!
he gets so glossed over- that guy was so far ahead of his time- for example, contemporary psych has barely started to come to grips with the book he wrote centuries ago

he writes everything in such a boring way- but says really deep shit the entire time

plus being the foundation for nietzsche's thought

damn, there were some lectures by gilles deleuze on spinoza on the web somewhere from the 70s- they may only be up in french nowadays- they introduced me to spinoza. i loved them so much. i found them much more insightful than any other commentary i've come across. some of my favorite philo bar none.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Edited by crunchytoast (07/27/05 03:04 AM)


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