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OfflinePositronius
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philosophers are instruments of the devil
    #2229081 - 01/08/04 07:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Have philosophers ever had any positive impact on human life?

they have definitly had negative impact, and have also been able to correct the negative impact created by other philosophers, but have they ever had any purely positive impact?


--------------------
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OfflinePhluck
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2229193 - 01/08/04 08:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"they have definitly had negative impact"

Such as?

I could probably think of a positive impact as easily as you could think of a negative impact.

The ideals of human equality, justice, and freedom and all philosophical concepts.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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OfflinePositronius
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Phluck]
    #2229196 - 01/08/04 08:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Karl Marx = communism = USSR.


--------------------
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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2229223 - 01/08/04 08:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The Catholic Church = the cruisades = genocide/forcefull conversion

So I could ask (by your reasoning): has Religion ever had any positive impact on human life?


--------------------
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You don't know what it is, but it's there....
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Driving you mad.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2229229 - 01/08/04 08:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
Karl Marx = communism = USSR.



John Locke = natural rights = Constitution = USA


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: silversoul7]
    #2229235 - 01/08/04 08:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm including religion under the banner of philosophy for this discussion.

silversoul = is that supposed to be a rebuttal...or a continuence of my point, I dont think the USA is the greatest example of philosophy's good deeds.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2229366 - 01/08/04 09:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul = is that supposed to be a rebuttal...or a continuence of my point, I dont think the USA is the greatest example of philosophy's good deeds.



Maybe not the way it is today. But at the time it was founded, it was one of the most free nations on earth.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2229388 - 01/08/04 09:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

your being silly in the pants man. THe fact that the ussr claims to have based itself on the ideals of karl mark certainly doesnt say that karl mark had a negative impact, it just shows how incapable people are as a society of truly adopting/understanding the ideas of philosophers, probably because the philosophers are generally a hell of alot smarter than the politicians. Did jesus have a positive impacet on the world? hell yes, when he was alive delivering his message straight from the heart. Did the numerous power hungry, ignorant, corrupt rulers and preisthoods who took ownership of his ideas have any positive impact? probably not

all these this=this=this analogys are ridiculous. I dont think i need to tell you that explaining cultural and societal functioning with a linear equation is far beyond your mathematical skills, so why even try? the fact is for every one philosopher bringing ideas of love, virtue and justice is a thousand violent, greedy materialistic brutes.
Philosophers are the people who due to some intellectual or spiritual abnormality are able to not only see beyond the material but also put more importance on the transcendent and live accordingly.

SO far society has been unable to make the same step collectively, hence karl marx turns into the USSR, john locke into the USA. Maybe if it was john locke leading the free world instead of george bush it would be a diffrent story.

Everything good created by humanity comes from the minds of philosophers.


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OfflinePedM
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2229415 - 01/08/04 09:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The lineage of pure intention on the part of a philosopher is dependent upon the pure view and intention of the student.


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Offlinebumski
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Ped]
    #2229789 - 01/09/04 12:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Aye lad, but what about the potatos?


--------------------
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OfflinePositronius
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2229841 - 01/09/04 12:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

the intent of the philosopher is not the question at hand, I am reffering to the effects of the philosophy. Of course the Russians bastardized Marx's philosophy, but their actions and government were a result of his philosophy none-the-less.


pharmakos:
"all these this=this=this analogys are ridiculous. I dont think i need to tell you that explaining cultural and societal functioning with a linear equation is far beyond your mathematical skills"

of course its an extremely basic understanding, dont criticize a potatoe for being a potatoe smart-guy. It is rudimenta ry, but can you dispute it? no.

marx = USSR, if marx would have never disseminated his philosophy into the world, the USSR would have never existed.

oh and to quote George Dubya :

" "We're sometimes faulted for a naive faith that liberty can change the world," he said. "If that's an error, it began with reading too much John Locke and Adam Smith."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1094052,00.html

The intent of the philosopher is irrelevant, what is relevant is how his/her philosophy is interpreted and actualized.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2230390 - 01/09/04 05:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Philsophers argue that they are very much involved with the problems posed by real life. Like, for instance, "What do we mean by real ?" and "How can we reach an empirical definition of life?".

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy





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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineHATU
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2230403 - 01/09/04 06:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

henry david therou : Civil Disobedience
India's Independence, Civil Rights movement


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2230779 - 01/09/04 12:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

> Karl Marx = communism = USSR

Communism isn't really that bad... in theory it is actually pretty nice. (Ever watch Star Trek? That is communism at it's best.) The true problem is corruption... which you will find with any form of government or economic structure.

Philosophers aren't bad... but some people are. Bad people can twist the ideas of Jesus, or Mohammad, or Marx into something 'evil' for their own use, but this doesn't mean that the people that came up with the original ideas are bad.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Seuss]
    #2231190 - 01/09/04 03:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

seuss: Communism isn't really that bad... in theory it is actually pretty nice. (Ever watch Star Trek? That is communism at it's best.) The true problem is corruption... which you will find with any form of government or economic structure.

---I disagree, communism is an economic structural extreme, just like free-market capitalism. Economic extremes result in alot of people suffering.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2231377 - 01/09/04 04:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

> Economic extremes result in alot of people suffering.

People cause suffering, not economics.  But we are all entitled to an opinion...  :smile:


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Seuss]
    #2231385 - 01/09/04 04:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

People cause suffering....not economics....

could you elaborate on your theory please? because I was under the impression that if you were born into a lower class in a free-market society, chances are that you will have absolutely -zero- social mobility.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: Positronius]
    #2231643 - 01/09/04 06:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"of course its an extremely basic understanding, dont criticize a potatoe for being a potatoe smart-guy. It is rudimenta ry, but can you dispute it? no."

um what the hell are you talking about potatoes for man? an extremely basic understanding is basically just saying you dont really know a hell of alot about what your talking about, and thats exactly the sense i get. a philosopher is a thinker, someone who comes up with ideas. Also , because there ideas have been taught and rememberd for hundreds or thousands of years in many cases, it is assumed they are thinkers of exceptional intelligence.

So to say 'philosophers are insturments of the devil' is no diffrent than saying that ideas, conciousness and the human mind itself are insturments of the devil (the serpents apple) . asking if philosophers have ever had a positive impact on the world is no diffrent than asking if humans have ever had a positive impact on the world. probably not. But the fact is your blaming the failure of the class on the only bright student. Philosophers are the rare exceptions to the rule. Your talking about how philosophers ideas have led to genocides and murders. if you count adolf hitler as a philosopher fine, but no philosopher i know of preached anything but non-violence, purity, wisdom, compassion and virtue, things that this world is severly lacking.

This is true of socrates, jesus, buddha, lao-tzu, confucius and essentially every philosopher i have ever studied. Again, saying that philosophers ideas should be held responsible for the crimes of people who claim to adhere to those ideas is far to simplistic. If jesus preached non violence and love for your brothers, and then adolph hitler , claiming to be christian , wipes out 6 000 000 jews (they killed christ!) your going to tell me you blame that on jesus?

if you disagree with me , state your objection more clearly and without so much potato talk. "its rudimentary but can you despute it? no"
dont answer your own questions buddy. I can and do dispute it


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OfflineShizpow
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2231696 - 01/09/04 06:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"but no philosopher i know of preached anything but non-violence, purity, wisdom, compassion and virtue, things that this world is severly lacking."

You're forgetting about Nietzsche...he preached power and intelligence.

And what about Alexander the great, conqueror supreme and a student of Aristotle, who taught him that the Greeks were the most advanced civilization in the world, and all others were barbarians?


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If you cut a face lengthwise, urinate on it, and trample on it with straw sandles, it is said that the skin will come off. This was heard by the priest Gyojaku when he was in Kyoto. It is information to be treasured.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: philosophers are instruments of the devil [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2231707 - 01/09/04 06:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

pharmakos: "extremely basic understanding is basically just saying you dont really know a hell of alot about what your talking about, and thats exactly the sense i get"

good good, good for you. Now, dispute this analysis:

-marx = USSR.

whats that you cant dispute it? what a fucking surprise.

pharmakos: "'philosophers are insturments of the devil"

-um........duh?

Pharmakos: "if you count adolf hitler as a philosopher fine, but no philosopher i know of preached anything but non-violence, purity, wisdom, compassion and virtue, things that this world is severly lacking"

really? nietzsche preached compassion? interesting. I don't count adolf hitler, but hitler did read nietzsche, and then he implemented his interpretation of nietzsche's philosophies into the real world.

pharmakos: "This is true of socrates, jesus, buddha, lao-tzu, confucius and essentially every philosopher i have ever studied"

oh, youve studied "Laozi"? could you please tell me what Laozi said about the common man and knowledge? I believe it was something along lines of..."keep them ignorant to all knowledge". Maybe my edition of Laozi had alot of typoes.

-ooooooh, confucius, now thats a great philosophy eh? well, all my Korean friends wish he had never lived because his philosophy has fucked up their society so badly, but....I guess you know more about how his philosophies have been used in real life, eh?

pharmakos: "I can and do dispute it"

then dispute it! tell me how my equation of marx = USSR does not work.

edit: ahhh shizpow you bastard!


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