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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Aristotle
#7487101 - 10/05/07 01:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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starting him in class.
Anyone care to offer a shroomery intro for the man?
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mikebart101
Bromden



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Re: Aristotle [Re: Noetical]
#7487413 - 10/05/07 05:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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They never tell you about all the drugs he did to achieve those ideas.
-------------------- So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
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So do people in here study philosophy or just make up their own?
I need help dammit
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Aristotle [Re: Noetical]
#7491563 - 10/06/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



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Re: Aristotle [Re: Noetical]
#7491671 - 10/06/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Few people around here have studied philosophy in any academic sense. I've done a couple classes so far, intro epistemology & metaphysics and existentialism. I don't know much about Aristotle, but I got a little summary of it in my medieval history class as he was rather influential to thinkers in the era.
He rejected Plato's 'doctrine of ideas' which stated that the senses experience only a pale reflection of unchanging forms (ideas). It was the idea that for everything that exists there is a pure, conceptual form of it that is it's source. He thought we could know these pure ideas through virtue of the soul... Aristotle argued that this wasn't true, and based his philosophical system on the data of senses, arguing that all we may know is the evidence of our senses. Where Plato was a mystic, Aristotle was a scientist.
Aristotle also believed the the universe was meaningful and essentially good. He also believed that man, although subject to the same patterns of development as the rest of the natural world, had a soul.
That's about all I got. Good luck with your class. If you wanna ask me about Kierkegaard, Nietzsche or Heidegger I'd be more likely to have something useful to contribute.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



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Re: Aristotle [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7491834 - 10/06/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Aristotle has written sooo much about every different category of knowledge, it's hard to give you a fair intro. He does everything from taxonomy to ethics to metaphysics.
I can tell you a few things I remember from studying Aristotle in my Ancient Philosophy course.
Aristotle's basic law for discerning truth was the "law of non-contradiction", an example being:
proposition: "all humans are mortals" supposition: "noetical is human" conclusion: "noetical is mortal"
Aristotle creates order by making opposites into the same thing, connecting two sides of a pole. So, if you want to find the true nature of honor - you look at the most dishonorable thing, and the most honorable thing, and honor is essentially the medium in between those two extremes. He says we intuitively know where this medium lies because we ultimately judge everything against a divine intelligence (i believe this only applies to his ethical theory though)
His metaphysics are pretty complex, I don't remember much about that.. I just remember it was pretty heavy learning about him, you kind of have to know what he means in one category of his philosophy to understand things in another. Good luck!
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Darylbe
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i likewise have just started aristotle... nicomachean ethics to be exact. read a couple of books within it so far, but plan on rereading it tomorrow (i also plan on finishing up plato's 5 dialogues). but anyway, id definitely be down on throwing some questions back and forth. ill stay posted. peace
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All We Perceive
Sea Cucumber



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Re: Aristotle [Re: Noetical]
#7493481 - 10/07/07 02:38 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Aristotle is so expansive there is no way a short introduction is possible to reasonably elucidate his ideas. Sorry
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



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Quote:
All We Perceive said: Aristotle is so expansive there is no way a short introduction is possible to reasonably elucidate his ideas. Sorry
Thankfully you didn't post this at the beginning of the thread, before several users actually presented ideas concerning the topic that were interesting and provocative, beginning a path of insight into Aristotle's work, because then it wouldn't already be evident that your statement simply isn't true.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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implicitli


Registered: 09/18/06
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Re: Aristotle [Re: Noetical]
#7503059 - 10/09/07 08:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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My favorite part of Aristotle - that I remember, is the idea of telos. Especially in relation to the Platonic forms.
Basically, Aristotle is sort of the beginning of western philosophy's attempts to classify all knowledge and all things. He was (might have been) Alexander the Great's teacher, and was very interested in biology. Apparently, he dissected animals to learn more about science, and documented octopi before we figured anyone should have been able to really know about them.
He thinks that women are inferior, and has some interesting ideas about slavery. Ummm. . .
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Aristotle [Re: Noetical]
#7503373 - 10/09/07 10:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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He thought women had less teeth than men.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
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Re: Aristotle [Re: Noetical]
#7503392 - 10/09/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noetical said: So do people in here study philosophy or just make up their own?
That seems obvious...
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implicitli


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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


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nice
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Aristotle [Re: Noetical]
#7511567 - 10/12/07 02:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't know very much about plato and aristotle. I have read some, and I will tell you right now, that professors and people well aquainted with his writings do not care so much about the conclusions, as they do recognise the method of dialectic that plato and Aristotle used. In my personal experience, when I read aristotles writings, I find incredible fallicies in logic, often false premises that both parties except as correct, and so are never examined.
There is no definitive conclusion on the logic of aristotle and plato. But my opinion in short, is that they get lost in a spirit of philosphicism ( along with other factors) that adds to the extreme delusion of thier conclusions. When you read aristotle's writing keep in mind and try to recognise the unspoken presuppositions that are being made, it is extremely important.
I think professors of philosophy don't care so much as whether you come to the same conclusion as they do about thier reasoning, but more importantly that you have an opinion yourself and you know the material. It's not as if there is one set opinion that you must conform to.
My suggestion is this. Get a traditional translation of Aristotles writings, the whole thing. Get the best one you can find. (after all aristotle is the one that recorded plato as his assistant). Then, buy this book: "Plato Unmasked: The Dialogues Made New"
http://www.amazon.com/Plato-Unmasked-Dialogues-Made-New/dp/0910055904
I have owned this book. I got rid of it because it smelled badly of cigarettes and it made it unbearable to read. But it is a very readable translation and I highly recommend it. Even if it is wrong in some parts, it's readability will help your exegesis,as will having another copy to compare. It's very very important in studying ancient writings like aristotle to have more than one translation, and compare them with each other. I can pretty much garauntee you that having this book I mentioned will make studying aristotle and plato much more insteresting.Hope that helps.
Edited by jonathan_206 (10/12/07 02:38 AM)
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a_guy_named_ai
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Quote:
Quote: All We Perceive said: Aristotle is so expansive there is no way a short introduction is possible to reasonably elucidate his ideas. Sorry 
Thankfully you didn't post this at the beginning of the thread, before several users actually presented ideas concerning the topic that were interesting and provocative, beginning a path of insight into Aristotle's work, because then it wouldn't already be evident that your statement simply isn't true.
Not meant ot attack you, but this is not true. The actual reasoning itself is so expansive it is impossible to give a simple introduction. The only way is to read it yourself. The only thing that can be adressed in short is the dialectic method of plato and aristotle, and a basic personal understanding of their views, their underlying pressuppositions, observations, and evaluations of the world around us. It is just too vast to summarize, and when someone begins to study aristotle having accepted your statement, they will become quite aware of the contradiction.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



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Quote:
jonathan_206 said: It is just too vast to summarize, and when someone begins to study aristotle having accepted your statement, they will become quite aware of the contradiction.
He wasn't asking for a summarization; he was asking for an introduction. It goes without saying that an introduction could not contain the vast amount of information regarding any substansial topic, and its besides the point. The point, of course, is that the original poster was seeking information, and several posters provided excellent information. The person I responded to clearly did not, beyond making an obvious statement that no introduction could contain the entire breadth of the topic being introduced.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



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Aristotle's Poetics outlined how epic poetry and, later Greek theatre, should be made. Artists from Sophecles to Speilberg have been influenced by the Poetics.
Western storytelling, in general, has not been the same, since Aristotle.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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backfromthedead
Activated


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Re: Aristotle [Re: Rose]
#7514267 - 10/14/07 12:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I heard he was teaching kids atheism according to the church because he was leading people into the knowledge of GOD within. Without the church, however that works.
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